Bel-Air

[Jamie Holladay]

I shot this at the local Hot Rod meet on my way home from work. Thoughts?

http://www.24zero.com/hotrods/061607/IMG_7945-pst.jpg

[Daniel Buck]

I dig it! :-)

When I was in college, for 3 years straight I went to car shows (phoeniz/scottsdale) 2-3 times a week shooting 20-30 shots each car show while learning my equipment and building composition skills. Car shows (particularly 50's cars) can be quite fun to shoot! And challenging as well, due to all the people around and very little room! Makes you think a little bit a bout composition with all the obstacles!

[Jamie Holladay]

Thanks Daniel. I just wonder how to stay out of the chrome. I tried hard on the stuff I shot, but just could not do it as is illustrated in this one.

[Daniel Buck]

Thanks Daniel. I just wonder how to stay out of the chrome. I tried hard on the stuff I shot, but just could not do it as is illustrated in this one.

the easiest way, is to just use a longer lens so you are farther away (much smaller in the reflections). Other than that, it's tricky on some cars! :(

[Jamie Holladay]

That makes sense. I ran across some actions over on POTN and ran them on this photo. I liked the out come. Thoughts?

http://www.24zero.com/hotrods/061607/IMG_7945%20lomo2.jpg

http://www.24zero.com/hotrods/061607/IMG_7945-300.jpg

[Daniel Buck]

Like the first one! THe 2nd one looks a little to muted I think.

[John Thawley]

The white balance is much better on the first of the filtered shots.

BTW... only problem with shooting shows using a longer lens is folks walk in front of you.

JT

[Daniel Buck]

BTW... only problem with shooting shows using a longer lens is folks walk in front of you.

Yep! that's a problem! It didn't usually bother me though, because I know it's a car show and people are there to view the cars. It's not a photoshoot, so I let the people have first rights to the car, and shoot when they are finished looking. :) People were usually nice enough when they saw me crouched down with a camera across the isle, to move out of the way and let me shoot. I never ask anyone to move though, and didn't ever put up a fit when people stared there for 5 minutes looking at the cars. :) It all works out! :D

[Mark Scheuern]

The white balance is much better on the first of the filtered shots.

BTW... only problem with shooting shows using a longer lens is folks walk in front of you.

JT

That and your reflection would be the same size, assuming the increased focal length compensates exactly for the distance change. I had to think about it for a minute but it's true.

[Daniel Buck]

That and your reflection would be the same size, assuming the increased focal length compensates exactly for the distance change. I had to think about it for a minute but it's true.
hu? no, you would be farther away from the chrome, so your reflection would be much smaller. stick your hand next to a chrome exhaust pipe, your hand is reflected real big in the pipe. now move your hand away, and the reflection gets smaller :)

[Mark Scheuern]

hu? no, you would be farther away from the chrome, so your reflection would be much smaller. stick your hand next to a chrome exhaust pipe, your hand is reflected real big in the pipe. now move your hand away, and the reflection gets smaller :)

Right, but in that case you're sticking an object (your hand) closer and looking at it from the same distance. When you back away from a reflective subject and then use a longer focal length lens to make an image of the thing you're shooting the same size, your reflection will be the same size relative to the subject.

I agree that it's not intuitive and I ended up drawing a ray diagram to convince myself. My original thought was that if you double the object (you) to mirror (the car) distance you quadruple the object to image distance, which is true, but the change in focal length exactly compensates--the ratio of the image size to the portion of the "mirror" that's in the picture will be the same.

The other thing that happens in real life, I think, is that when you back up you end up moving a bit from side to side and/or up and down, too, so you can position your reflection in a sharp corner or something. In that case the size of the reflection changes because you're effectively changing the shape of the mirror.

I probably should try to post something about the actual topic. I prefer the first of the two variations, too.

[Daniel Buck]

I'm talking about reflections on curved objects, not on flat surfaces. Like the reflection of a chrome ball (which would simulate chrome bumpers and painted fenders). I used to shoot chrome spheres to get light data from an interior or exterior location. You use a long lens and stand far away from the ball so that your reflection is very minor in the ball. Trust me, it works! If you stand close up and use a wide angle (keeping the ball roughly the same size in frame as your long/telephoto shot) your reflection in the ball is much larger! :)

[Mark Scheuern]

I'll have to think about what happens with a sphere. I don't doubt your experiences. Maybe I'll go in the basement and find a Christmas ornament... :)

[Daniel Buck]

I'll have to think about what happens with a sphere. I don't doubt your experiences. Maybe I'll go in the basement and find a Christmas ornament... :)
I happen to have one of my old spheres in my closet, I'll shoot some examples in a bit :)

[Daniel Buck]

here we are :) I framed the ball so it's roughly the same size on each lens (got it pretty darn close, I suprised myself! haha!) I cropped out only the image to the left and right of the ball in each shot, none from the top and bottom.

No room in my apartment to break out the 400mm, but I doubt you would want to swing around a 400mm at most car shows anyway :D

Granted, not all car surfaces are spherical like this, but for most car parts (since they are usually curved to some degree!) act just much like this sphere.

you'll notice things like my computer monitor in the background don't change size. That's because they are still the same distance from the ball. It all has to do with reflection angles, a sphere depicts this perfectly, because it has a very predicable distribution of reflection angles (not sure the correct term for this, but in 3d we call it the fall off angle, fresnel) The farther away you get from the sphere, the lower amount of degrees you are visible in the reflection. something like a mirror, is flat so all of it's 'degrees' face in the same direction.

http://danielbuck.net/wip/reflect_mm_01.jpg

[Mark Scheuern]

That's great, Daniel. Thank you! You're quite right (obviously): with a spherical mirror your image is smaller the farther away you get and that's very different from what you'd get with a plane mirror.

Time for me to break out the old optics books. :)