WOW... some people have balls....

[Chris Clark]

Big Brass Ones.

Get this:

I shot a NASA event this past weekend. On Monday morning I was contacted by one of the competitors wondering if I had any images. I say "sure, I'll have a look and let you know."

SO he goes on to talk about how he owns a sports marketing firm and works with all of these big race teams and is actually doing a project with a well known England based racing magazine. Basically a series of articles documenting the build up and testing of this car he ran at NASA last weekend. Would I be interested in having those images in the magazine and doing some possible future work with his company? Sure..

So I find some pics, put them in a SimpleViewer Flash gallery, right click Disabled, upload to my website and send him the link to view what I had. He likes them and asks can I email him the original Hi-Res files so he can have prints made and send the files off to the magazine...... RED FLAG!!

So I politely respond that I can provide high quality prints, images can be licensed, blah blah blah... send him a price list for prints, etc.

He responds immediately: "Are you interested in gaining some exposure with this project and working together in the future.. Or are you just interested in selling photos?"

My Response: "well both actually"

By now, I'm getting the feeling that I should walk, no, RUN away from this.

He goes on to say that based on our previous conversations he has already had his guy insert the images into the Flash document for his website and he was under the assumption that I was okay with that. Which I find funny because web site usage was never discussed. Come to think of it, How did he get the images out of my Flash document? hmmmm.....

So I check his website today: sure enough there are my images on his front page. So I emailed him again, saying that I was sorry for any misunderstanding but I am surprised to see my photos on his website and we never dicussed, blah, blah, etc... I then sent him a quote for usage based on what FotoQuote gave me, and very politely requested that the images be taken down until we have this misunderstanding resolved. I am sure we can work out something that is beneficial for the both of us.

He just now emailed me back... sticker shock on the quote, I am "unprofessional", the images suck, yada yada yada...:rolleyes: Now he's moaning that he has to pay the Flash guy again to remove the images. Funny, you'll pay to have the Flash done, but not for the images inside the Flash?

Yeah, shoulda' RAN from this one.

-Chris

[Todd Corzett]

I wouldn't say run, but don't give them anything that they could use until after rates have been discussed. The images you put in the flash gallery should have been watermarked... so that (hopefully) they wouldn't have been able to use them.

Sticker shock tends to be what most people I talk with are faced with... that is when I describe that the rate is based on how the images are being used... so if they said "unlimited web usage" when they only really needed "low-resolution, 1-year, editorial-only" there would be a difference in price. Unfortunately, some people just don't understand (and never will) what an image is worth... and those are the people you don't bother trying to explain things to more than twice.

-Todd...

[Chris Clark]

I wouldn't say run, but don't give them anything that they could use until after rates have been discussed. The images you put in the flash gallery should have been watermarked... so that (hopefully) they wouldn't have been able to use them.

Sticker shock tends to be what most people I talk with are faced with... that is when I describe that the rate is based on how the images are being used... so if they said "unlimited web usage" when they only really needed "low-resolution, 1-year, editorial-only" there would be a difference in price. Unfortunately, some people just don't understand (and never will) what an image is worth... and those are the people you don't bother trying to explain things to more than twice.

-Todd...

Yeah, see... the thing is he wanted them for free. Period. Based on the promise of future work, etc... So if I quoted him $10 he'd still be pissed.

Thanks for the suggestion that I watermark the images. I put them in the Flash document and disabled "right-click" specifically to protect them from theft. I had no idea you could extract those images from a Flash based gallery,.... I'm still trying to figure out how he did it. I guess I'm not all that Web-savy.... Lesson learned.:cool:

-chris

[Todd Corzett]

I put them in the Flash document and disabled "right-click" specifically to protect them from theft. I had no idea you could extract those images from a Flash based gallery,.... I'm still trying to figure out how he did it. I guess I'm not all that Web-savy.... Lesson learned.:cool:
If you can see it... you can take it. There are many ways around "right-clicking" (cache files, etc.), but often it is as simple as a screen capture.

-Todd...

[Chris Clark]

If you can see it... you can take it. There are many ways around "right-clicking" (cache files, etc.), but often it is as simple as a screen capture.

-Todd...

Yeah, your right.

I guess what has me so flabbergasted is we went from "Hey can I see some images from this weekend, I may be interested..." to "I boosted the images and placed them into the Flash on my website, thanks. I'm glad you are okay with it." :confused:

It was just so ... blatant. And then to have the nerve to talk about a future relationship....

-Chris

[Dennis Murray]

There's enough people running around willing to give stuff away...many people get the impression everyone does it then.

[Jacob Leveton]

I think we've all learned the 'watermark your images' lesson the hard way :(

Hope things work out for ya.

[Wes Duenkel]

So I find some pics, put them in a SimpleViewer Flash gallery, right click Disabled, upload to my website and send him the link to view what I had. He likes them and asks can I email him the original Hi-Res files so he can have prints made and send the files off to the magazine...... RED FLAG!!
Actually, someone showed me how to "steal" the images generated with SimpleViewer from my own website. Just type "/images" in the address bar of the directory where the gallery exists.

Gallery:
http://www.wesduenkel.com/Galleries/Gallery_070428_Microcar_Drive/Microcar_Drive/index.html

Images:
http://www.wesduenkel.com/Galleries/Gallery_070428_Microcar_Drive/Microcar_Drive/images

I guess having a Flash gallery wasn't as ironclad as I thought :(

If they can see it, they can "steal" it.

Bummer to hear about your situation...I feel your pain.

[Chris Clark]

Actually, someone showed me how to "steal" the images generated with SimpleViewer from my own website. Just type "/images" in the address bar of the directory where the gallery exists.
........
Bummer to hear about your situation...I feel your pain.

Interesting.....
My "guy" plucked them from his Temporary Internet files. Seems when SV loads the images it stores them in the viewers Temp. Int. Files folder. He plucked them out of there.

It wasn't that big of a deal. I learned my lesson, and managed to get him to remove them from his website.

I actually did a little research on the guy while all of this was happening to see how legit he was. He was talking a big game about what he could do for me, etc... so I did a little looking around. It turns out he is a major crook, and has a very seedy reputation, so I'm not all that broken up about losing him as a client. He must not have "Googled" himself lately.:eek:

Lesson learned. Now I use Photosehlter for that sort of thing. I upload, they automatically watermark for me and if I need to deliver files they have a slick new batch download as part of a password protected gallery that you can make and send to clients. Much easier.

-chris