What should I charge for use of image in catalog?

[Zachary Mayne]

Hey all,
Had a quick question and hoped someone might have a suggestion. I recently shot a tuner car for Sport Compact Car magazine. The company that supplied the wheels for the car, Enkei, apparently would like to use some of these images for an upcoming catalog/brochure. The company that buiilt the car emailed me and asked me to send hi-rez images with no mention of compensation. Anyway, I have no problem with working something out, but I was wondering if anyone had some suggestions on what I should charge for the use of the images. I'm more familiar with shooting features for magazines and not with this type of commercial usage. As an aside, I have a feeling that as soon as I mention getting paid, they're going to pass. Maybe I should email them and ask them to send me a new set of wheels, you know, for free.:rolleyes:
Thanks for your time,
Zachary Mayne

[David Adolphus]

Or maybe you could parley that into some sort of regular gig with them...

[Zachary Mayne]

Thats a good idea. Foot in the door, so to speak...

[Bill Jurasz]

Ugh. I've heard way too much advice from a variety of sources, and a little bit of personal experience, to know that the "foot in the door" line just doesn't work. If it were me, I would want to get paid or I'd pass. I'm sure they don't give away their magazines. I'm sure their editor didn't work for free to get his foot in the door. Ditto the writers. Ditto the ad salesman. Etc.

[John Thawley]

Ugh. I've heard way too much advice from a variety of sources, and a little bit of personal experience, to know that the "foot in the door" line just doesn't work. If it were me, I would want to get paid or I'd pass. I'm sure they don't give away their magazines. I'm sure their editor didn't work for free to get his foot in the door. Ditto the writers. Ditto the ad salesman. Etc.

BINGO!!!! Get paid. They aren't giving away wheels, you shouldn't give away photos. Please remember, if you give yours away... that means they're not buying images from a working photographer. It's no different than scabbing.

JT

[Todd Corzett]

It has been said before... get paid! Having your name in print gets really boring when you can't pay for your camera when the shutter explodes.

Find out some details about the catalog/brochure. It might be best to talk to Enkei, as they are going to be the ones who will be paying (I'm guessing). Find out how many catalogs will be produced, how large the image(s) will be, and where they will be located. Then, use a program like fotoquote (http://www.fotoquote.com/fq-overview.html) to determine the proper usage rate. If they are going to use your image on the cover they should pay more than if they are just going to have a little thumbnail on page 10. Don't be afraid to walk.

-Todd...

PS - Another thought... if the car/shop owner wants his car in the brochure they may be willing to pay as well. This is now in the world of usage... which is above and beyond the shoot itself when it comes to money.

[John Jovic]

Ugh. I've heard way too much advice from a variety of sources, and a little bit of personal experience, to know that the "foot in the door" line just doesn't work. If it were me, I would want to get paid or I'd pass. I'm sure they don't give away their magazines. I'm sure their editor didn't work for free to get his foot in the door. Ditto the writers. Ditto the ad salesman. Etc.

Ditto.
JJ

[Zachary Mayne]

Agree with everything said above. I definitely wasn't planning on giving anything away. And I will definitely walk if they expect the images for free. I have enough work getting published that I don't need any free "exposure." Thanks everyone for the comments, I'll look into Fotoquote. It always surpises me how peope expect to get images for free and are so casual about asking for them. And most of the time, they're business owners, so you would think they would understand the need to pay for a service or product!

[Bill Jurasz]

And most of the time, they're business owners, so you would think they would understand the need to pay for a service or product!
Why pay for something that you can get for free? Its not their job to protect your business interests after all. That's why they do it.

[Zachary Mayne]

I wasn't implying that I give images away for free, merely commenting on how presumptuous some people are. Thanks for pointing out that its my job and not someone elses to protect my business interests. My post was about how much, not "should I give them away?"

[Jacob Leveton]

Enkei is notorious for asking for images and promising "future compensation" or paying for a very minimal amount in trade for unlimited use.

I would be surprised if they pay you more than $100-$200. They will definitely balk at the first mention of payment. I'd be willing they offer to LET YOU buy their wheels at a discount / wholesale price, implying that it is a great deal.

Perhaps things have changed over there since I dealt with them nearly 3 years ago, but they definitely aren't aware of the value of quality images

[Dennis Murray]

You need more details to figure out intended use - what's the run of the catalog, what's the image size, what's the lifespan of the catalog?

I'll agree with what everyone else said - free work is a foot in the door for more free work.

[E. John Thawley III]

Here are a couple of on-line pricing guides that you might find useful. Emphasis on the word guide, as they are more for commercial photography in general and not the automotive industry...

http://www.editorialphoto.com/resources/estimator/
http://www.d-65.com/photographersonly/pricing.html

[Jim Sykes]

Yeah, I've been approached two different times (I guess they forgot about the first time and tried again) by Enkei for photography and as soon as I mentioned any kind of payment they just flat out said they'd find someone willing to give them a photo in turn for being published.

One time they even wanted the photo for a full page ad that would run for 6 months in 4 different tuner mags. They wanted that for free and felt that they should get it for free since the team that they sponsored was a client of mine and had already paid for the photos.

[Jacob Leveton]

One time they even wanted the photo for a full page ad that would run for 6 months in 4 different tuner mags. They wanted that for free and felt that they should get it for free since the team that they sponsored was a client of mine and had already paid for the photos.

That's how they got my shot... the team that I shot some stuff for gave them the photo. :(

[Mike Ditz]

Depending on the size and placement of the image and the print run and distribution of the catalog , consumer or trade, regional, national or international, one year or multiple years, the fee would range from about $250 for a spot to maybe $3500 for the cover. It's not that they will pass if you talk money, but they sometimes have different budgets for different projects and will pay more for something they really need and do not have on hand.However, if you want too much $ they will find it better for them to reshoot it and get exactly what they want.
On the PO have them fully describe the rights that they need to license.

or they might just tell you they can find it for free.

[Zachary Mayne]

Thanks everyone. As I thought, as soon as I mentioned I wanted to talk about paying me, they stopped communicating, And I was going to be very reasonable for the cost.

[Jacob Leveton]

Not surprised at all.

Just remember, this is not just to your benefit, but to the benefit of all working photographers.