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David Adolphus
03-14-2008, 09:32 AM
'Just received an email from a colleague on the recurring subject of running into the cops while shooting. I don't necessarily agree, but he's a highly experienced guy who's worked for all the big buff books, and his opinion counts.

Some names have been changed to protect...whoever. (John, please feel free to move this to a more appropriate forum if needed.)


Frequently, what we do (shooting) takes us places that we possibly ought not be. (Murphy's law: all the best locations are verboten.) If you haven't already, you will almost certainly run into some resistance shooting wherever you choose to shoot. Two sad but true stories:

* In NJ, I found a piece of fresh pavement at a GS Parkway rest area doubling as a commuter parking lot. It was coned off. So I went inside the cones, lined them up behind the car just so; it made a striking visual. The cop agreed as he hassled me. My first defense, "It's for a magazine" gave him room for the brilliant retort, "then you should know better!" And he gave me a written warning for moving cones in a construction zone.

* In CA, I was doing some car to car shooting on Pacific Coast Highway. A CHP officer spotted me, pulled the whole wagon train over and asked for a business card, which I gave him. To which he replied, "Good, next time I see you doing this I'll haul you in." Which means once again that it pays to be an amateur. He did, however, offer to close down PCH if we contacted the office. That would cost about $600 an hour to pull off. Yeah, let me get the checkbook out right now.

I will generally spill for the cops, because I'm weak and they have actual power (not to mention firearms); park rangers are hit or miss, and security can usually be blown off easily enough. I also generally keep working, getting as many shots as I can manage, while the owner tries to distract/intoxicate/otherwise bamboozle whoever is doing the hassling. License plates and shirts can be explained away by "ordering out the back of the catalog." The XXXXXX-wrapped Odyssey is a little harder to explain.

Even so, in advance of a trip somewhere you probably ought not be going, please tell your car owner and his/her comrades to lie if approached. I generally do this in person, as an aside before we get going, and surprisingly to me, most owners are OK with this. After all, they've parked their car--it's not like we're DOING anything. As I tell them, "you lie and I swear to it." It usually involves "a couple of car club buddies" taking some pics of a recent purchase. I've occasionally called a car owner "uncle" just to give ourselves a giggle afterwards.

The lesson: DO NOT EVER ADMIT TO SECURITY/POLICE/WHOEVER THAT YOU ARE SHOOTING FOR A MAGAZINE. Sometimes they'll come out and ask, "Is it for the magazine?" Not that they know which one--just the magazine. I usually laugh, as if to say, "as if!" Really curious security may wonder "why here?" I usually say something about liking the sun and the texture of the background. They don't generally know what to make of that. And that's OK. If they see you're not messing around with anything, sometimes they leave you alone. (If you start climbing on walls and such, you're a more obvious liability to them, and they're more likely to throw you out.) You do occasionally get someone who really wanted to be a cop when he grew up, failed utterly, and wants to take it out on you. For the ones you can't deal with, just go somewhere else.

Today's hilarious run-in with Indian Tribal Security while shooting cars in Palm Springs reminds me that, when shooting and as outlined above, honesty is not always the best policy. Silence generally is. Be honest, be brief, and be busy enough loading up your stuff that you can scoot in seconds. To wit, after we park my van once it's been driving on the wrong side of a double yellow line for the better part of a mile (so that I may shoot car to car, of course), with security in a silver pickup (without even a yellow light bar--what kind of security is THAT?) trying to get close enough to me to ruin my shot (and failing utterly):

"Hey, you can't do that!"
"Sorry."
"What's your name?"
"Jeff."
"You have a card?"
"Nope." (To the other car owners, "Let's go.") I put down my tailgate, and he reads my license plate number aloud. I don't care, though, because I'm already getting in my van and hightailing it the hell out of there. My two photo charges follow. And it ends.

Cowardly? Probably. But what are they going to do, mail me a ticket? Please.

E. John Thawley III
03-14-2008, 03:14 PM
Pretty typical stuff.

The question of "why here?" comes up a lot with cops and security patrols. Since they are (or should be) safety conscious, I answer honestly that I chose that location because it is a low/zero traffic area and I wanted to shoot where I would not be in anyone's way. (Nor they in mine...)

In nearly 20 years of shooting for magazines, I've never been arrested and only gotten one citation for shooting without a permit. I HAVE been ask to leave hundreds (maybe thousands) of locations and have always done so without argument. I've found that the right attitude and some respect for the other persons job/concerns helps a lot. When that goes well, I am often allowed to "just finish it up quickly" before I leave.

The law is rarely on our side if we do not have permits, insurance and property owner permission. I never force an issue or cite my rights unless someone tries to confiscate my gear or images. Anything in public view is fair game for photos, whether its private property or not. The issue only lies in the selling of the photos.

Thawley

Daniel Buck
03-14-2008, 04:39 PM
I HAVE been ask to leave hundreds (maybe thousands) of locations and have always done so without argument. I've found that the right attitude and some respect for the other persons job/concerns helps a lot. When that goes well, I am often allowed to "just finish it up quickly" before I leave.
this is the best solution in my opinion as well. be respectful for them, don't make a fuss or try the "it's my right to shoot here" cause it will just tick them off and they'll try and give you hell. If I'm asked to leave, I first politly ask if I may finish up a few shots first. 9 times out of 10 when I'm asked to leave, they let me stay for a bit longer to finish up.

What gets me, is that some folks make a huge fuss about it and start arguing with the police. This does them no good, and it does the rest of us no good either, since now that officer will probably have a bit more attitude with the next photographer he sees shooting somewhere.

Most of the time though (since I shoot in remote areas) the police just want to know what I'm doing. They usually BS for a few minutes about their old muscle car, then they say good day and take off. I imagine this wouldn't happen quite so often if I were shooting in more urban areas.

Bill Jurasz
03-14-2008, 04:51 PM
Very interesting thread and is a topic on my mind right now actually. I used to own a Honda S2000 and I'm still involved with the club. There is a Houston-Austin-Houston drive coming up and a few are interested in a group photo. I'm trying to think of places to park 25-30 cars for one shot and all I can think of are shopping malls and high schools, and I'm pretty sure I'd have difficulty with either (definitely the former, and likely the latter). In this case should I really consider approaching a high school or something similar for a real permit? All guidance appreciated.

Mike Ditz
03-14-2008, 08:45 PM
Situational Ethics Question...If you are shooting for a magazine and you lie to the police because you don't want to get a permit or pay a fee, etc. is it different from a client who lies to the photographer about how he wants to use the pictures?

Your friend (is he an amateur or a professional or does it matter?) sounds like one of those people whose reputation precedes him, like when the property owner or cop thinks all photographers are like him...Just like there are a-hole police there are a-hole photographers who are too lazy/cheap/arrogant/unable-unwilling to plan ahead to get a permit. For the most part most police I have spoken to do not care unless you are doing something stupid and or unsafe or they have gotten a complaint from a citizen. Rangers from state and national parks are a different story, they won't give you a break. Ventura County Sheriff stopped traffic for us once when shooitng a Ferrari just because they were nice guys.
They have much more important things to do and it's just too much paperwork for a cop to deal with for shooting w/o a permit, but if you cross the the line into the ignoring an officer or criminal trespassing or they decide to confiscate the car without any license plate or registration (Almost happend in Santa Monica Mountains), things can get exciting.

Your friend Jeff sounds like a real cowboy-fighter pilot-secret agent-I'm always right, everyone else is a fool kinda guy....:rolleyes:

Daniel Buck
03-15-2008, 01:05 AM
Situational Ethics Question...If you are shooting for a magazine and you lie to the police because you don't want to get a permit or pay a fee, etc. is it different from a client who lies to the photographer about how he wants to use the pictures?
I'm glad that I have no need to try and answer or live out that, as a hobbyist :o

David Adolphus
03-17-2008, 01:36 PM
For the record, this is not my philosophy--for feature photography I always attempt to spend a couple of hours both scouting locations, and making friends with local law, highway department, fire department, whoever. More often than not--a LOT more often than not--I get huge cooperation. Highway department guys, especially, seem to have boring jobs & welcome the opportunity to goof off for an afternoon & look at cars.

Bill, that'd be my suggestion for your S2000 shoot, but go to an outlying small town to do it. Big factories are also nice--like structural steel or precast concrete. Try three of them, and I guarantee at least one foreman/manager/owner will be a car nut. Schools & hospitals SUCK.

Jeff's definitely a cowboy, I'm sure someone on the West Coast knows him, he was with Petersen and then Primedia for years.

Bill Jurasz
03-17-2008, 03:20 PM
Thanks David for the advice. I'm just hoping I've been given a long enough lead time by the group to be able to scout a location and get approval.

Jessica Germiller
03-23-2008, 04:44 AM
Jeff's definitely a cowboy, I'm sure someone on the West Coast knows him, he was with Petersen and then Primedia for years.


Hmmm...these stories sound like a photographer that I had the pleasure of assisting about a month ago. You said names have been changed though...so I'm wondering if I am thinking of the correct person:confused:

Gary Grant
08-29-2008, 02:55 PM
I've only been doing this a couple of years, but I've only been approached by the constabulary once.

Our kid's school has a really cool safety training village next to it with a school bus that has murals all over it. It was on the weekend, when there were no kids around and my subject was parked in front of the bus.

The officer drove up the driveway behind me and aksed in his most official voice what I was doing. I explained that I was taking photos for an online road test. He asked a bunch of questions about the car and watched me work for a while. When he got bored, he waved and went on his way.

Costas Stergiou
10-26-2008, 03:47 PM
I remember when I was first getting my rig developed, I was at a loading dock and had a cop drive by and asked me what I was doing. I told him I was testing out my new rig and asked a few questions about it and went on his way. A couple days later I made some improvements to it and the same cop drove by and saw me and came up to me again. He saw that I was testing it out again and drove off, only to come by a few minutes later to offer some suggestions on how to make it more stable. We need more guys like this working on the police force.

Jacob Leveton
10-27-2008, 04:12 PM
I remember when I was first getting my rig developed, I was at a loading dock and had a cop drive by and asked me what I was doing. I told him I was testing out my new rig and asked a few questions about it and went on his way. A couple days later I made some improvements to it and the same cop drove by and saw me and came up to me again. He saw that I was testing it out again and drove off, only to come by a few minutes later to offer some suggestions on how to make it more stable. We need more guys like this working on the police force.

I'd love to see that in the Port of Long Beach :) If the same cop saw you twice in a week, you'd definitely be sitting in a dark room somewhere in Long Beach in a matter of minutes, do not pass go, do not collect $200. ;)

Erik Melander
02-22-2009, 09:20 PM
Since they are (or should be) safety conscious, I answer honestly that I chose that location because it is a low/zero traffic area and I wanted to shoot where I would not be in anyone's way. (Nor they in mine...)
I have the same experience with such an answer; and usually they're flattered for such a thought process.
Agreed with the rest saying that providing them with a kind tone gets you farther than just quickly packing up and trying to jet-set.

- Erik

Steve Stein
02-23-2009, 10:01 AM
I've only been doing this a couple of years, but I've only been approached by the constabulary once.

Our kid's school has a really cool safety training village next to it with a school bus that has murals all over it. It was on the weekend, when there were no kids around and my subject was parked in front of the bus.

The officer drove up the driveway behind me and aksed in his most official voice what I was doing. I explained that I was taking photos for an online road test. He asked a bunch of questions about the car and watched me work for a while. When he got bored, he waved and went on his way.

You should of had him pose with the bus/subject. That would have been cool, with the promises of a cup of coffee and a doughnut for his time. ;)

Andreas Reinhold
03-02-2009, 10:11 AM
I shot an Audi R8 and a Porsche 911 a few weeks ago. For the static shots, the newly built police headquarter looked like a great background. So I went in there two days prior to the shooting and asked. They sent me to their press officer and he gave me the permission to go on police property and do the shoot. It took almost two hours, but the cops were great, talking about cars, watching me work. At one point, they removed the flashlights from the roof of their press police car and put it first on the Audi R8 and then on the 911. Great photos :-) I will show them, when the issue hits the shops (end of march).

Ben Crabtree
03-03-2009, 06:21 AM
i used to work as a security guard for a while, looking after government owned schools.
never had a photoshoot going on at one, but would frequently find kids hanging round, playing basketball etc.
most of the time if i was friendly, then they were friendly, and i could ask them to move on and they would.
working with a few other guards, who were very aggresive in the way they treated them, they nearly always ended up in an argument, and in a full on brawl on a few occasions.


stopping what your doing, speaking to the officer nicely will generally work better for you than ignoring them, and treating them like crap. they might just want to know why your there, and not have a problem with it, or they may turn a blind eye for 5 mins while you get the last few shots.