Sprint cars - Oval Nationals at Perris

[Chuck Fry]

My first gallery from Perris this past weekend is here (http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-thursday/). There will be more shortly... in the meantime, here's a couple of samples.

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-thursday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0093.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-thursday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0200.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-thursday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0272.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-thursday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0318.jpg

[Dany Flageole]

You are allowed to flash them?

[Todd Corzett]

Nice and sharp, but the powerful flash has really seemed to freeze the action. That combigned with the background really makes the cars look 'cut-out'... the last one I can't tell if the car in the back is up in the air or just a 'crazy cut-and-paste'.

-Todd...

[Chuck Fry]

Yes, we are allowed to flash them, and most dirt track photographers do. The lights at Perris are really good as dirt tracks go, but not adequate for photography IMHO. Some photographers prefer to use the track lighting and higher ISO settings, but I find the noise unacceptable.

Todd, I've heard that criticism before. I like to use daylight when it's available and shoot pan shots at 1/160th or so. That gives a more effective motion blur, especially in the backgrounds. But it wasn't an option this late in the season.

[John Thawley]

I can't see the EXIF data... but have to agree on the flash.. there's just a cartoonish look to these.

I'd get the ISO up and the shutter down.... even below 1/60th. Don't try to inch the ISO up.... put if up and get a good solid exposure. The noise won't be all that bad if you expose properly. If you under expose the noise will kill you... you don't have the recovery room in post processing. But, I think I'd rather live with the noise than the puppet show effect. These are nice compositions.

JT

[Bob Chapman]

I understand what the others are saying about the flash, but I'll disagree. I think the extra vividness of the color helps separate the cars more from the track. I suspect no flash would have resulted in dull and lifeless colors in the cars that would have faded them into the brown.

Cartoonish? Perhaps. But in this case, it's an acceptable trade-off for me. Have you ever tried a rear sync on the flash? Shoot at 1/60th or 1/40th (or even slower) with a rear sync and you might get some crazy cool stuff.

[Chuck Fry]

Sorry about the missing EXIF data, these are from Lightroom galleries with most of the metadata stripped. All the action shots are from a 1D Mk II. The vast majority are at ISO 400 or 500, 1/250th @ f/5-5.6 or so with a 100/2 or occasionally a 135/2 lens, and 100 W-sec flash. I've boosted the exposure in post on some of them, and cranked up the noise reduction a bit on the darker ones.

I'm using a Norman 200B flash and don't currently have the option of 2nd curtain sync. My panning skills aren't good enough yet to get away with 1/60th.

I'm doing my best to not be defensive about my work, but gentlemen, this is a much different world than shooting sports cars in daylight! I invite you to check it out some time.

The second gallery is up here (http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-friday/).

Here are a couple samples from the second gallery. The first one is a daylight, uh, twilight shot, ISO 400, 1/400th @ f/1.8 with a Canon 200/1.8 L lens. It's a little unnerving pulling the chunks of mud off the front element of that lens after the cars go past!

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-friday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0389.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-friday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0560.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-friday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0594.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-friday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0647.jpg

[John Thawley]

Chuck, don't feel defensive... I don't think you're being defensive at all.

Can the flash be turned down at all? I don't see ANY fall-off at in these pictures. Contrary to Bob's assertions, that was my first reaction... that there was SO MUCH flash. In the last photo, even the back cars are lit up.

What I'm getting at, is I think there's more ambient light available.

With a 200 f/1.8 you got the right lens to get this done... but you've got to get the energy back in these cars. Start working that shutter speed down. Just know that you're going to shoot more and throw away more. But the one's you keep will be killer.

I couldn't disagree with Bob more. You can do this.... ISO 800 @ 1/60th should give you great images. I know 1/60th seems tough... but if you drop to 1/15th and 1/30th, 1/60th will seem like a piece of cake. LOL - I've got a panning discussion (http://www.johnthawley.com/journal/2008/8/18/the-pan-shot-taking-control.html) on my blog... maybe there are some hints in there that might help... I don't say they're gospel, but they help me. There's an entry on night shooting (http://www.johnthawley.com/journal/2008/10/13/night-moves.html) too.

And, all sports cars don't run during the day... I shoot the Rolex 24, Sebring 12 Hour, Petit Le Mans (10 hour) and any other race I can get to in the dark, with no flash. This was Laguna practice:

http://gallery.johnthawley.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=121020&g2_serialNumber=1

[Chuck Fry]

John, I appreciate the suggestions. I'll give them a shot next season. As you know I really admire your work.

I generally try for more artistic shots in single-car qualifying. That's when I'll use longer lenses and slower shutter speeds. In summer, there will frequently be enough light to get some serious speed blur and background action.

During the races, I'm approaching it more as a photojournalist - hoping to capture the decisive moments of the race. The last shot (#8) above is one of those - the two cars on the outside had been trading the lead the whole race, and the #38 blasted by on the inside at the end to take the win. In that process, if I can catch a wheels-up moment, or contact between cars, so much the better.

One of the challenges with available-darkness race photography at the bullrings is the quality of the light. Most tracks aren't all that well lit and there are huge holes in the light coverage. Most tracks use mercury vapor lights... color accuracy is a fantasy under these conditions.

[Dany Flageole]

Yes, we are allowed to flash them, and most dirt track photographers do. The lights at Perris are really good as dirt tracks go, but not adequate for photography IMHO. Some photographers prefer to use the track lighting and higher ISO settings, but I find the noise unacceptable.

I would have tought this would be regarded as rude to the drivers as they could be distracted/blinded be the flash at night since they kind of face it

Personnally I think I would avoid it

[Brent Smith]

John - I don't think your night example compares very well to shooting at a short track. Take away the head lights, tail lights, and position markers and the car would be blend in with the background. I think that sportscars lend themselves to night shots without the flash a lot more than other forms of motorsports.

Here are some of my examples of stuff without a flash. It needs some work as I don't usually shoot this way at night. The noise is bothersome to me, but maybe with something newer than a 20D it wouldn't be so bad.

I'm sorry they are all at 800 pixels on the widest size.

http://brentsmith.smugmug.com/photos/340934208_iraEw-XL.jpg

http://brentsmith.smugmug.com/photos/340934374_PXqeH-XL.jpg

http://brentsmith.smugmug.com/photos/340934547_nvLQE-XL.jpg

http://brentsmith.smugmug.com/photos/140363773_fK3JL-L.jpg
This had a little flash usage which stopped the wheels, which wasn't my intent.

http://brentsmith.smugmug.com/photos/143927912_tNq5Q-L.jpg

[Dave Verna]

Looks like great material for the new D3 from Nikon - supposed to be excellent high ISO with little to no noise.

[John Thawley]

John - I don't think your night example compares very well to shooting at a short track. Take away the head lights, tail lights, and position markers and the car would be blend in with the background. I think that sportscars lend themselves to night shots without the flash a lot more than other forms of motorsports.


Quite the contrary.... where my shot was taken there was NO ambient lighting at all. I'm out in the countryside.

JT

[John Thawley]

http://brentsmith.smugmug.com/photos/140363773_fK3JL-L.jpg
This had a little flash usage which stopped the wheels, which wasn't my intent.

http://brentsmith.smugmug.com/photos/143927912_tNq5Q-L.jpg
These look great.... I know the wheels are stopped on the one... but great blur.. and the picture tells me it's night racing.

[David Hill]

As a 30 year veteran of dirt tack shooting I have ask many drivers if my flash bothers them, and to a driver I get the same reply... I notice the flash but if I'm paying attention to it I'm not doing my real job.... Don't worry you aren't bothering me.....It doens't seem to matter wheather its Sprints, Midgets, Dirt Late Models, Mods etc....

[Dany Flageole]

Thank you for the follow-up

[David Hill]

I’ve been watching this and feel it’s time to jump in… I think we are coming from different world on this subject… While I marvel at the stuff that John, Bob, and Todd shoot I totally understand where Chuck and Brent are coming from. I truly love the artsy aspect of the existing light shots, but, I have a hard time selling them to my clients or the magazines I shoot for….Take the 2 car shot of Chucks’ with Miller and Bacon, 2 cars 4 wheels on the ground… That shot, in my opinion would have been totally lost without the flash to stop it… This is a money shot in the major sprint magazines…. I personally don’t want to risk losing a shot for cash for a possible artsy grab… Now, that doesn’t mean it’s not good to try but……… I guess I worry more about getting a shot that I know my clients will buy.. But that’s me….I think there in lies the differences,,,the dirt guys have not been exposed to the artistic side of action photography.. They know what they want and like and we shoot because of that… Does that make any sense????

[Brent Smith]

David-
I totally agree. I was going to mention this earlier but I didn't have time. John brought this up a while back with a discussion about do you shoot exactly what your client wants or do you try to expand their horizons with something new. The trade papers and even the track programs seem to want little do to with shots that involve low shutter speeds. Give them a side by side or crash shot that freezes the action and they are happy. I don't know if the publications would become more accepting of the more artistic photos if more were submitted. I can't speak for the other photographers but I'm guessing that very few submit photos like that. I suppose it is all about finding a balance between shooting what you need to satisfy your commitments along with shooting what you like and enjoy.

[Chuck Fry]

There's exactly one publication I know of that welcomes "arty" racing shots - Racer magazine. And they don't cover dirt track racing for the most part.

[Chuck Fry]

The gallery from the final night is here (http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-saturday/). The dusty track conditions made for less than ideal shooting. A couple samples:

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-saturday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0832.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-saturday/content/bin/images/large/NN4D0868.jpg

http://www.chucko.com/photo/oval-nationals-2008-saturday/content/bin/images/large/IMG_5065.jpg

[Dany Flageole]

Nice Chuck,

You are pretty good with the flash, I'm impressed, especially about the lst one where nothing is too blasted in the front but you still see people 75' away

How do you do it?

[Chuck Fry]

100 W-sec, a telephoto reflector, and low contrast post processing. There's not a lot of tweaking here, some exposure boosting by maybe 1/2 a stop and raising the black level to get rid of the dust in the air. And a bit of cropping of course.

What usually happens is I'm farther away from the action than I'd like to be. So the light falloff is a little less severe.