I finally hit the big time(one of my pics stolen)

[John Jackson]

I have a pretty popular print I sell of a girl kick starting a triumph bike. Well the local harley dealer used it in a rather large poster for advertising there sales at the Lonestar Rally in Galveston.

Here is the e-mail I sent:

Mr. Slovak,


I recently received a copy of the Lone Star Rally "Kick-Start Weekend" poster. While I'm flattered that you chose to use one of our copyrighted images for the event, we normally charge for advertising services. Please contact me at your earliest convenience regarding this matter. I am also available if you are interested in purchasing photography for future promotions.


Thank you,


John


Here is his reply (I guess I am the A-hole here)

Mr. Jackson,

I apologize if I varied from policies I was not made aware of. Prior to allowing the poster to be distributed, I sent the draft to Ron Limbock of the Lone Star Rally for his approval. He graciously gave his approval and was very appreciative that we were aggressively assisting in promoting the rally that was rescheduled as a “rebuild” of devastated Galveston as a result of Hurricane Ike and attendance was already questionable. We amiably agreed to stay as a vendor even though we firmly understood that our financial contributions, sponsorship, and expenses as a result would not be overcome by the revenue generated. However, Republic Harley-Davidson takes great pride in supporting the local communities, especially in such an instance as the wonderful residents of Galveston were damaged so severely financially and emotionally. There were no indications to me, verbally or in writing, that we were required to obtain your prior authorization by any documents or Mr. Limbock. I was and still am under the impression that Ron is the contact for the Lone Star Rally. If I did indeed overlook such information that may have been provided to me, once again, I sincerely apologize and will be more observant in the future.

On a personal note, I am somewhat offended by your verbiage in regard to financial restitution, especially considering the circumstances and our intentions to help those less fortunate.

[Bill Jurasz]

Gotta love his pass-the-blame attitude there. I wonder just exactly why he thought the event organizer had the ability to authorize the use of an image in the first place. Do you know how the dealer got your image in the first place? Possibly he got it from Limbock? And if so you might be barking up the wrong tree.

I ran into a problem way back in 2005 with MRP Motorsports in Austin, who had a co-marketing agreement with Iron Rock Raceway, and as a result started using my images in their advertising that was licensed only to IRR, not to MRP. It was a case of left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing in that my contact at IRR agreed to the licensing terms w/o realizing that their co-marketing agreement would not allow that. In other words, my original "displeasure" at MRP was not warranted and was directed at the wrong party.

[Perry Bennett]

Wow. Congrats on hitting the big time, LOL.

I guess that means all of your images are now free! Sweet!

Geesh.

I think you handled it pretty well, but I dont know if you haev a case with them or with the designer who made the flyer/ad campaign. I would guess you need to trace it back to that person or company, right?

Good luck.

[John Jackson]

Oh yea here was my reply( my lawyer is taking it from here)

I did not intend to offend, but it is what I do for a living. If I would have been contacted by your company who presented the work as its own, and what it would be used for it may have been a non-issue.

So from this e-mail I should gather that Mr.Limbock is the creator of the ad that has your buisnesses name on it?

[John Jackson]

Oh yea talking about free pics paying off. I shot a guys 28 studebaker for a studebaker magazine because we had mutual friends, and I could use it for portfolio work. Well we have become good friends, and i never charged him. Well his wife just happens to be a corporate copyright attorney, and she runs with my wife.

[Bill Jurasz]

Nice!

[John Thawley]

This guy is SO pissing up a rope. My God. His email would have put me over the top.

Let's see.... YOU steal my work.... then you send this dribble that, long story short, says "hey... I think you're an idiot." Wow.

I'd say you own them all. Charity or no charity.

JT

[John Jackson]

Yea if you notice my first e-mail wasnt hey pay me for the pic it was more of hey you cant do that why dont you just pay me in the future. Then he goes and makes me the A-hole lol......Of course the money they made at the event didnt go to charity it was all profit in there pocket because they where there selling and renting bikes.

[Costas Stergiou]

costas from houston-imports here... you should have told them, "I don't see you giving away free bikes, why would I give my work away for free?"

;)

[John Jackson]

Yea thats why I put in my reply I do this for a living lol

I so much want to just drive over there after his reply, but that probably wouldnt help my case any lol

[Mike Ditz]

Wait a minute, a Harley dealer acting like a prick? Inconcievable! Just because he decides to support a good cause does not mean that you are obligated to, and as you say his support is also doing good for his business. Both the promoter and the dealer are in the wrong for using your picture. The promoter for approving something he had no business approving, the dealer for putting his name on the poster with your image on it and the designer who laid out the poster. Have the friend of your wife send all of them a lawyer letter. Dont go there on your own. Figure out what you want as compensation, maybe a Fat Boy Electra Glide Double Mocha Decaf.
It's also a little funny becasue the big three who really go infringers are Harley, Disney and the NFL.
And WTF is a Harley dealer using a Triumph on a poster?
As far as the free bike thing goes, HD does donate (lease for a dollar) bikes to a lot of police departments, how else would they get into that market when there are much better authority bikes like BMW, Honda and Kawasaki.....the dealers get the service contracts, which for a HD is a huge profit center, along with the HD panties.

[John Jackson]

Yea I am letting her take care of it, but the guy is still a douche a simple apology from the dealer would have ended our conversation

[JustinCesler]

I would go into his dealership and 'test ride' one all the way back to your house. When he calls, tell him you are going to ride it to a local hospital and give the kids rides on it.


It is for a good cause, it should be free shouldn't it?

[Perry Bennett]

hahaha, Justin! Nice!

[John Jackson]

HaHaHa good one. Here is a copy of the main part of the poster for you to judge

The Poster

http://photochicken.smugmug.com/photos/449699622_tRzM3-L.jpg

[Perry Bennett]

any chance of seeing the original image if we promise not to steal it?

[Perry Bennett]

That picture on your site of the Orange truck doing a frickin wheelie down the road is SICK!

Love the full screen images on your site, BTW. Nice to not have to squint!

[John Jackson]

Thanks for the kind words its a template from creative motion design we have been really pleased with it so far.

Here is the original

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hubgarage/photos/230263/DSC09520_detail.jpg

[Aaron Kupferman]

Um, nice angle on the bike. :o

[John Jackson]

I got this reply back from him last night



John,

Once again, I apologize if any of the artwork was copyrighted, however, the artwork you attached does not have any copyright notations, even at 214%. I think the word “stolen” is not justified.

Mr. Limbock is the operator of the Lone Star Rally. The poster was designed by our internal employees. I presume the artwork was from the Internet or other accessible source that did not specify copyrighted images. If the picture/document does not indicate the copyright privilege, the browser is not aware.

Please send me some info about your company and what contributions you may be able to assist with for future events. I looked at your website, very impressive and unique. The issue of compensation for the picture will not be discussed any further. If you care to pursue legally based on the picture with no copyrighted documentation, the publicity you will get as a result of attempting to gain financial benefits from a company that was operating in good faith by contributing to citizens who had suffered severe emotional, financial, and lifestyle devastations, and in some cases, family injury and death, will certainly not be beneficial.

Please call me should you want to discuss any further.

[Bill Jurasz]

What a prick.

[Bill Jurasz]

Just curious, though I know its not necessary for copyright issues, does the metadata in your original file have copyright notification in it?

[John Thawley]

I got this reply back from him last night



John,

Once again, I apologize if any of the artwork was copyrighted, however, the artwork you attached does not have any copyright notations, even at 214%. I think the word “stolen” is not justified.

Mr. Limbock is the operator of the Lone Star Rally. The poster was designed by our internal employees. I presume the artwork was from the Internet or other accessible source that did not specify copyrighted images. If the picture/document does not indicate the copyright privilege, the browser is not aware.

Please send me some info about your company and what contributions you may be able to assist with for future events. I looked at your website, very impressive and unique. The issue of compensation for the picture will not be discussed any further. If you care to pursue legally based on the picture with no copyrighted documentation, the publicity you will get as a result of attempting to gain financial benefits from a company that was operating in good faith by contributing to citizens who had suffered severe emotional, financial, and lifestyle devastations, and in some cases, family injury and death, will certainly not be beneficial.

Please call me should you want to discuss any further.

Man, I'm usually pretty passive in my approach to this stuff. Assertive, to be sure... but I always try to keep things moving forward.

This guy is a jerk. This guy is under the impression that he is of superior intellect and everyone else should simply step back and buy is bullshit.

I would simply remind him, that regardless of "copyright" indicating the image has YOURS, it does not take any form of notice to know its not HIS. A motorcycle parked on the street doesn't need a sign that says This Is Bill's Motorcycle. I'm well aware it is NOT MINE. The lack of a sign does not signal to me it's alright that I take it. I'm sure Bill would agree. LOL

Have your buddy's wife spank this jerk.

Just an FYI, my quotes and invoices have a notation that indicates any use rights discussed via the transaction ARE NOT effective until the invoice is paid. Hence, you don't pay me, it's not just a matter of an unpaid debt. It's now a criminal copyright infringement....

So, tell this guy to have his momma come by the bus stop, you're gonna take him to school.

What an ass.

[Steve Stein]

So, tell this guy to have his momma come by the bus stop, you're gonna take him to school.

What an ass.

You have a way with words, John.:)

[Derric Slocum]

wow, this guy is a jerk, hope you take him to the cleaner on this one! i guess people think if its on the net they have every right to make it their own!

[Kevin DiOssi]

People don't understand and we look like we're idiots? Sorry this happened and I hope it will work out for you.

[Kevin DiOssi]

By the way, this is one of the longest sentences I have ever read. I ran out of breath in my head! haha

"If you care to pursue legally based on the picture with no copyrighted documentation, the publicity you will get as a result of attempting to gain financial benefits from a company that was operating in good faith by contributing to citizens who had suffered severe emotional, financial, and lifestyle devastations, and in some cases, family injury and death, will certainly not be beneficial."

[Bill Jurasz]

wow, this guy is a jerk, hope you take him to the cleaner on this one! i guess people think if its on the net they have every right to make it their own!
That's exactly what the author of this book proposes:

http://www.amazon.com/Remix-Making-Commerce-Thrive-Economy/dp/1594201722/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231969224&sr=8-1

He likens it to the long accepted practice of quoting snippets of text. So, I guess in that author's mind, using a portion of your image in a new way is just fair game. :(

[Shawn McClelland]

That's exactly what the author of this book proposes:

http://www.amazon.com/Remix-Making-Commerce-Thrive-Economy/dp/1594201722/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231969224&sr=8-1

He likens it to the long accepted practice of quoting snippets of text. So, I guess in that author's mind, using a portion of your image in a new way is just fair game. :(

So quote his book, add a reference to your footnotes and re-distribute it in bookstores :) I'd be willing to bet that would be a fun court case watching him not practice what he preaches.

To add the prick's of the world, I've had two studios in my professional career that I have worked for take material from my demo reel of films & games I have worked on and add it to their own demo reel to promote themselves and attract clients even though I didn't work for the studio at the time the work was done. The last one took cinematics work I did for Halo 3 and plastered it all over their reel/website and wound up with a lovely C&D letter from Microsoft lawyers.

[JustinCesler]

I would go into his dealership and 'test ride' one all the way back to your house. When he calls, tell him you are going to ride it to a local hospital and give the kids rides on it.


It is for a good cause, it should be free shouldn't it?


Not a joke. Do it.


Also, add that no where on the bike did it say he owned it, so you thought it was free to keep. His store doesn't have a sign saying "These bikes are mine and shouldn't be taken without my permission." I don't care if the pope wanted to use my picture, he is paying for it.