My New Website

[Morgan J Segal]

Some of you may have already noticed, but I recently launched my new website. I have not made the official announcement yet as the sight is about 97% done, we are still working on the little details. I am also still adding/subtracting and moving around photos

But here is an early peak www.morgansegal.com

[Jason Jenkins]

I like the design. It is easy to navigate for the most part and I had no problems moving around and it was loading fast.

I don't care for the fact that you took over my browser and opened it full screen though. Just my humble opinion. :)

[Morgan J Segal]

Why is that a problem?

[Jeff Wilson]

Pop up/pop out windows are extremely annoying to most users. They clutter the desktop, particularly if the user has more than one app running at a time. They also make it difficult in a tabbed browser to switch between windows and navigate around.

There has also been a mental conditioning with users to automatically hate pop ups due to spam and advertising related material. When I see a "launch" button I automatically skip the site. You might reconsider the real value of that design feature.

[Todd Corzett]

I will agree with the pop-up and resizing stuff. It's a good way to keep things like you want, but it's just a bit invasive. If you want to make the window full screen, that's one thing... but to make it full screen just to block-out other distractions and then pop-up another window is a little excessive. If you were making the window larger because you have large images, that would be a better reason... but you actually make my windows smaller with the pop-up, so you're not really adding anything to my experience with the process. Heck, I can't even look at your site and type in this window at the same time... I bought a 23" display and darn it, I want to use it :p

Maybe you could make the page "vertical friendly". Center your pop-up window (but no longer a pop-up) and have it stand-out by separating it from the background a little? Keep a horizontal stripe the same background color (make it able to scale as wide as people use), and make the top/bottom of the page make the content stand-out (like a darker color)?

Other than that... I really like it. The gallery "hover preview" is a nice touch. I hate when sites just have numbers and make me click through them all to see just the ones I want (most of the time just move-on before going through them all). I like how I can see a shot right off the bat. The captions are great... added touches that make them more than "just" images. Very nicely done!

-Todd...

[John Thawley]

Netiquette.

I understand the reasoning... but, I too don't like the sense of invasiveness.

Perception? Perhaps... though I don't think it's important to understand why it bugs people, it's important to understand it does. After all, you're not going to fix us. D)

Nice looking though.

JT

[Morgan J Segal]

Well, I don't think there is any fixing it at this point, I will have to ask. When it was shown to me originally, I did not find it invasive. It does not bother me at all. As a matter of fact, you guys are the first to say something about it.


The reason for it was to be able to maintain the concept and size of the website regardless of monitor size

[Daniel Buck]

I can't say that I'm a fan of flash galleries, but at least this one gets to the images fairly quickly. :-)

I like the color scheme, it's easy on the eyes and lets the images stand out.

[Morgan J Segal]

Pop up/pop out windows are extremely annoying to most users. They clutter the desktop, particularly if the user has more than one app running at a time. They also make it difficult in a tabbed browser to switch between windows and navigate around.

.

I still fail to see how that is a problem, you look at the website and when you're done, you close it and get back to what you were doing.
If you don't want to close it right away, it's easy to put it aside without cluttering your desktop


There has also been a mental conditioning with users to automatically hate pop ups due to spam and advertising related material. When I see a "launch" button I automatically skip the site. You might reconsider the real value of that design feature


Pop up spam? What's that? I can count on my hands the number of times I've had a pop up spam.
Why would you associate a "launch" button with pop up spam? Opening it is under your control and it would be assumed if you typed in the URL you are willing to see what the site has to offer

[Jason Jenkins]

When working on my computer, I like my windows a certain way. I have them sized to a dimension that I like to use and work within. When you resize my window for me, it's not simply closing it if I don't like it, because now when I open a window again it's full size still. Now I have to resize the window and adjust it back to the way that I orginally wanted.

Again, it's just my opinion..

[Jeff Wilson]

I still fail to see how that is a problem, you look at the website and when you're done, you close it and get back to what you were doing.
If you don't want to close it right away, it's easy to put it aside without cluttering your desktop

Pop up spam? What's that? I can count on my hands the number of times I've had a pop up spam.
Why would you associate a "launch" button with pop up spam? Opening it is under your control and it would be assumed if you typed in the URL you are willing to see what the site has to offer

Pop ups are the reason pop up blockers exist, it's a common problem that has caused a certain conditioning among many users. I should have said pop up ads, not spam, I was in a hurry though. In a nutshell, many people find popups of any sort annoying. I certainly do and based on the responses here I'm not alone.

I use Firefox with tabbed browsing specifically because I don't want more than one browser window open on my machine, I find the hijack of the UI intrusive. What you really need to consider isn't what you find intrusive or a useful interface, it's what your customers will find useful. However, that is an entirely separate discussion.

As JT said you aren't going to fix your potential user base of this mindset or preference (whether you agree or not and whether it's good or bad is irrelevant) so you should consciously make the decision to either do what you want regardless of potential user preference, or take a customer centric approach and ensure your site meets user preferences for navigation and use.

BTW, I don't mean you need to tailor every design element and the content for strictly what the customer may be looking for, but certain things have very well established best practices in web design. Things like navigation, click depth, etc. All of this can be measured with entrance and bounce rates, click through on advertising, etc. so I'm not talking about voodoo, it's just marketing.

[Shane Parker]

Morgan,

Did you post the site wanting praise or wanting real feedback? I ask because it doesn't sound like the latter. The site is easy on the eyes, the flash method is easy to navigate, but I definitely agree with the others on the popup. You may not find fault with it, but you posted it to find out if others do; correct? Here are my reasons for not liking popup websites:

1. It takes over my browser window size/shape/etc. without my permission. Often times I like to have two windows open side by side on my monitor. So I'll resize one window so that it only displays a portion of the website that I want to view and resize the other window right next to it so that I can view both at the same time. I can't do that with yours.

2. Because it takes over my browser window, I cannot open it the way I prefer. When I do my daily work, I have a LOT of windows open. So I prefer to use a tabbed browser (such as Firefox) that allows me to open each site up in a separate tab so that I don't clutter up the task bar even more. Your site does not allow me to do this; it forces my browser to open up another window (cluttering up the taskbar even more) and then it maximizes my browser window behind it… that’s annoying when I’ve probably already taken the time to size my browser the way I want it.

3. If I were viewing your site at 800x600 (I know, rare, but some people still have their resolutions this low... especially if they are hard of seeing) I would not be able to see all of it because you don't allow the window to be resized.

4. It DOES have the same nature as a popup spam window. It "pop's up" to a size and position that it commands and doesn't allow you to do anything with it except close it.

Then, there's the marketing aspect of it. Web site marketing rule #1: Make access to your site as easy as possible. If the end user has to do anything (even click an entry button) just to enter your site AFTER entering the URL of your site, you've failed some users who will simply move onto the next site. Like Thawley mentioned above, you don't really need to understand WHY popup websites turn some users off, you only need to understand that they DO turn some users off.

I’m not as against flash usage as some; I think it definitely has its place and can be a valuable tool when used correctly (especially for folks in fields related to design). So I have no problems with the usage of Flash EXCEPT when it takes over portions that could have been done with regular text/html/xhtml/css/etc.

If you did not post the site for feedback (which I would find odd), then please disregard all of the above. Again, I think the site looks good and is easy to navigate; I simply fail to see a reason TO use a popup based approach. This design could easily be transferred to a 'normal' web page layout and, IMO, look even better!

{bumped by Jeff}

[Todd Corzett]

Did you post the site wanting praise or wanting real feedback? I ask because it doesn't sound like the latter.

If you did not post the site for feedback (which I would find odd), then please disregard all of the above.


I think Morgan was just posting it as an announcement (which is why it is in the announcement section), but some are giving some opinions/feedback. IMO, nothing wrong with giving the opinions... but it is Morgan's site, and his to do what he wants with.

-Todd...

[Mike Ditz]

Certain people have an automatic response to things, like the "I hate flash and anybody who uses flash in fact I hate flash so much I only use tungsen lights" folks.

I don't find the "taking over my browser" to be a problem but maybe I don't know enough to be p.o.'d about it. In fact the full frame sort of let's me step back from the clutter on my screen to pay attention to the website that I am looking at. Maybe I am too slow to multi task. :(

Nice work by the way.

[Shane Parker]

I think Morgan was just posting it as an announcement (which is why it is in the announcement section), but some are giving some opinions/feedback. IMO, nothing wrong with giving the opinions... but it is Morgan's site, and his to do what he wants with.

-Todd...

Yes, it's ultimately his decision and I certainly apologize if I came off harsh/rude; my only intent was to give feedback that may (or may not) hold some value to Morgan.

[Jeff Wilson]

Ahh...My bad. I should have noticed the forum it was in. My apologies if I overstepped the bounds of the original posts purpose. I was just trying to offer constructive feedback based on past experience.

[Morgan J Segal]

A) I posted this as an announcement, as the site is mostly done, and beyond major changes. While I appreciate some feedback, I did not expect it to get trashed for such a petty (IMO) little thing. I am a bit shocked that some of you can't seem to get past the pop up to really look at the site (some of you have FAR worse offenses than this on your own sites BTW), did you guys even notice the photos?

B) As I mentioned, the site had been shown to a lot of people prior to this, and you guys are the first to complain about it. The site represents close to six months worth of work, not to mention what would have been a HUGE amount of money had my wife not worked for a successful web design firm, so forgive me for getting defensive

C) You guys are not my target audience, I've shown the website to members of my target audience and no complaints about this so far

D) I don't want you to be multitasking while looking at my site, I want your full attention.

E) Not everyone works with multiple windows visible at the same time. I never work that way, I always work full screen (even on my big monitor). I don't like all the chaos. I actually find it annoying when websites don't open full screen. On Macs, it is a one touch button to show all your screens at once and a simple click to bring the one you want to the front. Far better solution than having multiple little windows open at the same time IMO
If I want a site open for me to go back to later in the day, I store it in the dock

You can always just close the back window and keep the small one in your little corner of your screen so can enjoy it all day long

F) If your attention span is so limited that you can't click one button to enter, I don't want you as a client

G) I realize I am not going to fix the users, but again this is the first complaints I have heard about it, so I need to know if there is a valid reason for it or if you guys are just freaks of nature

H) Your gripes have been noted and we are looking at a solution, so move on






And PS, I have noticed a trend here for people to critique photos even when they are not in the "Critique" forum, so why bother with the critique forum, or vice versa?

[Shane Parker]

I apologize for giving my opinion on the site. When I check posts, I click on the "new posts" link in the forums so I don't enter through the forum categories and sometimes forget to check which forums I'm in. My bad; I will make sure to keep personal opinions out of the announcements forum in the future.

I will, however, defend that using popups for websites has most certainly been frowned upon in the last few years (whether you find fault with it or not). If you don't believe me, simply jump into conversations with web developers on the web or in person (I am a developer myself and hire many other developers throughout the year; photography is my part-time job). I've already given valid reasons why (and didn't even go into the technical aspects such as browser compliance issues).

So in answer to "G)" above: No, we're not 'freaks of nature' these views on popups are actually quite common. So with that answer, I'm now "moving on". Sorry to waste your time; I was sincerely only trying to provide constructive feedback.

[Mike Ditz]

... If you don't believe me, simply jump into conversations with web developers on the web or in person (I am a developer myself and hire many other developers throughout the year; photography is my part-time job). I've already given valid reasons why (and didn't even go into the technical aspects such as browser compliance issues)....

I think it might be more of an issue to the "insiders" than to Mo's target audience, who will likely enjoy the work and either hire him or not. If the site doesn't work for them, they'll move on...

[Austin Langley]

Well, I don't think there is any fixing it at this point, I will have to ask. When it was shown to me originally, I did not find it invasive. It does not bother me at all. As a matter of fact, you guys are the first to say something about it.


The reason for it was to be able to maintain the concept and size of the website regardless of monitor size

I have no problem with the popup site. You have a launch page, so you know that by clicking it you will be launching some other window. Closing the window is as easy as pressing two keys. I like the design. It's simple and easy to navigate. I like the fact that the images load quickly. With many flash galleries, the images load slowly. Good stuff!

[Jim Sykes]

Morgan, since it sounds like you are trying to figure out why people might not like how your site works I'll give you MY reasons for not even getting to one of your photos.

I dont mind the popup with the photos in it, that doesnt bother me and is not a horrible thing in my mind.

What I dont like is the resizing of the main window against my will. I truly HATE when people do that. I have a particular way that I browse and use the internet, I dont look at anything full screen unless it simply will not fit within a normal window. I personally like having multiple windows open and I have them so when I do they are laid out overlapping slightly so I can get back to them easily enough, sort of my own version of tabbed viewing.

However, if you resize a window and take over my whole screen that ruins what I am doing Also, I can simply close the window to get back to my others, but Windows will save the way the last window was viewed when closing, so as soon as I open a new window, or a link from another site opens a new window, I have that full sized window again on my screen. So I have to actually resize your window before I close it, making things just that much more of a pain in the butt.

Is it a huge deal...not really in the scheme of things. Is it a pain for a lot of people...definately and you always want to make the users enjoy browsing as much as possible. If you start to make decisions FOR them, no matter how small they may seem, that has the chance of making their experience less than enjoyable.

Those are my thoughts. I might be weird or the minority, but when someone takes over my browser in any way shape or form, they have instantly lost my attention unless its sooo important I have to be there. Is that important for you to consider for your intended viewers...I dont know. More likely they are going there for a reason and hopefully they will stay.

Even with keeping the popup, just getting rid of the auto window resize would likely help quite a bit and should be an easy fix.

Anyway, those are my thoughts and why I hate when folks take over my browsing..maybe it gives you some insight as to why some have reacted like they do.

[Morgan J Segal]

I dont mind the popup with the photos in it, that doesnt bother me and is not a horrible thing in my mind.

I hope not because your site pops up too

What I dont like is the resizing of the main window against my will. I truly HATE when people do that. I have a particular way that I browse and use the internet, I dont look at anything full screen unless it simply will not fit within a normal window. I personally like having multiple windows open and I have them so when I do they are laid out overlapping slightly so I can get back to them easily enough, sort of my own version of tabbed viewing.


I can't please everyone's work habits. I prefer full screen viewing (as I am sure many do) and always view web pages that way. For me, having to scroll up or down, left or right is a big put off. For example, on your website the pop up window for your portfolio is too small on my big screen and too big on my laptop, so I either have to scroll around to see everything or drag the site to be full screen. I hate that.

However, if you resize a window and take over my whole screen that ruins what I am doing Also, I can simply close the window to get back to my others, but Windows will save the way the last window was viewed when closing, so as soon as I open a new window, or a link from another site opens a new window, I have that full sized window again on my screen. So I have to actually resize your window before I close it, making things just that much more of a pain in the butt.


I fail to see how that ruins what you're doing, either you're going to take the time to look at the site or you are not. You close the site when your done and what you were doing is still there.
I understand what you mean about how Windows saves the last window size (my mac does not do that, but I once owned a PC), I don't like that either, but in the opposite way, I hate when the windows do not open to full screen and I had to resize them manually to see the whole page. In your scenario, no matter what size my site opened, would not meet your preferences of browsing.
In the case of my site, it's very easy to close the full screen page first and be left with the small window as you desire.

As mentioned, this was a six month project and it was shown to people all the way, including web industry people, and no one made a big deal about it. Additionally, we looked at many websites including award winning www.amivitale.com and www.antonwatts.com, both of which do the same thing. It is controlling your viewing environment for maximum impact. I want you looking at the website, not looking at the porn you got open in another window

I am sorry that you feel so violated by having a web page open up in such a way, but it's just a web browser, it's not like I broke into your home and rearranged your furniture :rolleyes:

All that said, I brought it to the attention of the designers and they are looking at possible solutions

Thanks

Enjoy the photos if you can make it that far

[Jim Sykes]

I hope not because your site pops up too



I can't please everyone's work habits. I prefer full screen viewing (as I am sure many do) and always view web pages that way. For me, having to scroll up or down, left or right is a big put off. For example, on your website the pop up window for your portfolio is too small on my big screen and too big on my laptop, so I either have to scroll around to see everything or drag the site to be full screen. I hate that.

That is true, however, if you dont try to control their habits, then the liklyhood they will get upset and leave yoru site is a lot less.

Also, as far as my site goes, my portfolio should simply open up into another browser window which should be the size that you normally prefer to browse, so I dont know how it can be the "wrong" size. It may not be entirely visible on a smaller screen, but there is notthing that can be done about that except using really small parameters, which I dont expect anyone in an "artsy" type of site to do.


I fail to see how that ruins what you're doing, either you're going to take the time to look at the site or you are not. You close the site when your done and what you were doing is still there.
I understand what you mean about how Windows saves the last window size (my mac does not do that, but I once owned a PC), I don't like that either, but in the opposite way, I hate when the windows do not open to full screen and I had to resize them manually to see the whole page. In your scenario, no matter what size my site opened, would not meet your preferences of browsing.

With Windows you just hit the maximize button and it goes full screen, no re-sizing involved. Actually, it would serve me perfectly if you just let the main window open up a page without the instructions to go full screen. Then it would just be the size I normally use and when I close the window when done viewing your site, it would re-open again in my preferred size when I use it again.

In the case of my site, it's very easy to close the full screen page first and be left with the small window as you desire.

Yes, but then I have to deal with a full size window when I open another since the browsers remember the size of the last one closed. Some "crappy" Windows feature?...maybe, but its still the most popular one out there. ;)

As mentioned, this was a six month project and it was shown to people all the way, including web industry people, and no one made a big deal about it. Additionally, we looked at many websites including award winning www.amivitale.com and www.antonwatts.com, both of which do the same thing. It is controlling your viewing environment for maximum impact. I want you looking at the website, not looking at the porn you got open in another window

I am sorry that you feel so violated by having a web page open up in such a way, but it's just a web browser, it's not like I broke into your home and rearranged your furniture :rolleyes:

All that said, I brought it to the attention of the designers and they are looking at possible solutions

Thanks

Enjoy the photos if you can make it that far

Understood, and dont get me wrong here, I'm not critiqing your site per se, you just said you didnt understand why it was a big deal to some, I'm explaining to you why its a big deal to me. You can do what you want with your site and I'm sure there are a lot of "award winning" sites out there that I would hate and not spend more than 10 seconds at either.

Again, not saying you're wrong, just telling you why I dont like when people re-size my windows. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but if you're happy with your site and you havent had complaints from the people its designed to reach, then you dont need to worry about it.

[Todd Corzett]

Enjoy the photos if you can make it that far

Well, a bit of a complement on your site... compared to these other "award winning sites", I made it farther into the galleries on your site. First, I liked knowing what the portfolios/galleries were about (automotive vs "1"). Next, the "hover preview" really helped. With the antonwatts site, while there were many great photos (and there were some quite spectacular ones!), I never really did get too far because I got tired of not knowing what I was going to see (I only made it about 5 photos into the first gallery, compared to viewing all the previews and a couple dozen of the photos in all of your galleries).

And with your site... I did enjoy the photos, but the photos would be great if they were in a great website or tossed in a shoe-box. We couldn't find anything wrong with the photos, so were jealous and needed to go after the website instead :)

-Todd...

[Morgan J Segal]

Some "crappy" Windows feature?...maybe, but its still the most popular one out there. ;)


Not for my target audience ;)


I just showed the site to an AD friend who in his heyday was doing Porsche, Nissan and GM ads and who now works for Oakley, and he loved the site, had no problem with the screen size. As a matter of fact, he liked it so much he is going to consider the designers for some future projects


Sorry if I got a bit upset, but after all this effort to make the site and kudos from other people that have seen it, I was really disappointed that you guys did not like it, especially for what I consider such a non issue

[Mike Ditz]

Boy for creative people in an alledgedly creative industry there sure a lot of rigid minds. I hate this, don't touch my windows, flash sucks. I mean really, it takes what 2 seconds to resize or close a window,. Maybe I'm an idiot but I see no problemo. Why not enjoy looking at what other creative people are doing? Morgan seems to going after clients who are hiring him for his vision and what ideas he brings to the project, so 'taking over the browser' with the cool website is part of the presentation. OTOH some people have sites to sell prints (or license usage), so it's more of a retail look, you want to show the merch, sell the steak, not the sizzzle. Don't let anything get in between the customer and the cash register. What works with one market, may not work with another.

(Hey Jim S-whats up with the baseball players and golfers and girls soccer players scattered thru your site, it sort of derails the message of you as an international reacecar photog...):confused:

[John Thawley]

Ok..... I think this thing has been hi-jacked and beat to death.

Morgan... my apologies. It's a great looking site and represents your work well. Hope it serves you well.

JT