Formula Drift Round 5: Evergreen Speedway

[Jackson Pennell]

Scored my first press pass ever to an event :)

Here's a few of the shots I snapped. (please feel free to critique, even though this isn't the critique forum, if you see something you like or don't like, let me know)
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad143.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad171.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad144.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad177.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad286.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad339.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad525.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad544copy.jpg
http://www.team-blend.net/jacksonphoto/formulad550copy.jpg
All in all, for being my first time shooting as press at an official event I feel I did okay, I have alot more pictures, but I am waiting for NissanPacific to setup a gallery for me before I release them all.

I shot this whole event with my Canon Digital Rebel XT, 18x55 kit lense and 75x300 telephoto lense with a 58mm cheap polarizer filter. I planned on renting a few lenses but I was not able to free up enough time to make the 3 hour drive to the closest rental place. Once I start getting some better equipment and maybe some image stabalizing lenses, I can't wait for my success ratio to go up.

A few things I learned:
-If there is a crash, keep shooting, don't stick your head up from behind the viewfinder to check it out
-If you're going out to the middle of the track and have to wait for a break to come back, bring water (if you have enough room, bring some for your fellow photographers)
-Scope out all of the locations ahead of time and what time each location will have optimal lighting

I had a blast though!

[Jacob Leveton]

oh snap, that was you? i was shootin right by ya for qualifying... had a black AlphaNumeric hat on, shmoozin with mrs. car and model ;)

your shots came out pretty nice, especially for your equipment!

[Jeff Boerio]

Jackson,

Some nice starts here. Take some of JT's preaching and put the cars lower in the frame for most of your shots, and I think they'll be more impressive.

- Jeff

[Jackson Pennell]

What is the reasoning behind putting car's lower in the frame?

[Emet Ward]

Very nice! I was there too, but as a spectator. How did you score yours? I love #4 of the S13 (although the Falken Mustang is my favorite :D ).

[John Thawley]

What is the reasoning behind putting car's lower in the frame?


It's called composition. :)

Seriously, though... it's not JUST about putting them lower in the frame, it's about "the rule of thirds"....

If you look at the majority of your images here, you're allowing autofocus to force you into "center-syndrome."

Shifting things off center will give more perspective and depth to your point of view. Consider the fact that cars are not at eye level.... they run on the ground by your feet. So, if you lift your lens up and keep the car down... you're now putting it in my face providing a more powerful viewpoint. We also want to see the car moving in or out of the frame....so look for things that show the viewer what is happeing ... the story within the story.

JT

[Jackson Pennell]

I noticed most of the photographers were shooting much quicker shutter speeds than I was. What is your guy's opinions on the background blur I accomplished as compared to the majority where the shot seems almost still with a little bit of shake in the background?

[John Thawley]

Personally, I think the shutter is a bit high. Especially for the sport your recording. To me these things should be stupid blurred.

I'd work to get these down to around 1/30th... maybe the ones were your out at 200mm could go a little faster. But for the most part, for the subject matter, these are a bit too safe. IMO.


John

[Jacob Leveton]

John - have you shot drifting before?

i've seen shots come out sharp down to around 1/50th on certain tracks. I don't think you'll get them that slow on a track like Evergreen because the cars aren't moving fast enough at a constant speed. 80mph seems fast for drifting, but compared to other motorsports that routinely hit over 150, that's really nothing.

I think 1/60 - 1/100 is usually best. Any slower and you'll start to get really blurry results on parts of the car (back end / front end will be out of focus), any faster and you're really not getting much background blur.

btw - i'd say 70% of the people with press passes at the event had no clue what they were doing. it was somewhat depressing. Lots of people shooting their first motorsport event ever. Take that into account.

[John Thawley]

John - have you shot drifting before?

i've seen shots come out sharp down to around 1/50th on certain tracks. I don't think you'll get them that slow on a track like Evergreen because the cars aren't moving fast enough at a constant speed. 80mph seems fast for drifting, but compared to other motorsports that routinely hit over 150, that's really nothing.

I think 1/60 - 1/100 is usually best. Any slower and you'll start to get really blurry results on parts of the car (back end / front end will be out of focus), any faster and you're really not getting much background blur.

btw - i'd say 70% of the people with press passes at the event had no clue what they were doing. it was somewhat depressing. Lots of people shooting their first motorsport event ever. Take that into account.

FYI... race cars are NOT always doing 150 mph. And, often the most blurred shots are accomplished in slow corners.

To shoot slower, use a shorter lens and get closer. Blur is generated by the movement of the camera... not the movement of the car. It can be controlled by choosing the right combination of lens focal length, your position AND the shutter speed.

I'm well aware what happens to fore and aft focus points when you shoot slow... and that's the point... these shots SHOULD be blurred.

My comments were not about technique... they were aimed at thinking outside the box and telling the story. Fans of drifting are under the impression that it's something edgey.... the shots should portray that.

Your note about 70% of the people with credentials not knowing what they are doing is consistant with most racing venues I've attended.

JT

[Dylan Wiggins]

I only had a handful of shots turn out at 1/40 and 1/50 with my non-VR lens, then i used between 1/60 and 1/125 to get some keepers in before the event was over. I agree with JT that the blur should look like a rig shot ;)

[Jackson Pennell]

nice, im glad to see I am on the right track, I had some photographer come up to me and ask what shutter speed I was shooting, when I replied between 1/60-1/80 he gasped and said that was horrible and that I should be shooting 1/250 or so...

heh, at the end when the trophies were being presented, one of the photographers pointed out one of the guys with a press pass was shooting with a point and shoot, haha

[Jeremy Hua]

I only had a handful of shots turn out at 1/40 and 1/50 with my non-VR lens, then i used between 1/60 and 1/125 to get some keepers in before the event was over. I agree with JT that the blur should look like a rig shot ;)
The VR is useless anyways for drifting. With more practice, I'm sure you'll start nailing the 1/30 shots.

It really reminds me of the gym. When I used to workout at World Gym, there would be so much incorrecft lifting form and technique going on that all you can really do is just shake your head at it, and continue doing your thing. Just because some muscular guy is doing an exercise, doesn't mean it's the right way. Just like some guy with a MKII isn't necessarily better than a guy with a Rebel.

[Jacob Leveton]

The VR is useless anyways for drifting.

I know for Canon, the IS can be put in '1 way' and '2 way' modes. 2 way = both vertical and horizontal stabilization, 1 way = 1 or the other. The 1 way is perfect for panning shots. Does VR not have this option?

[Steve Demmitt]

I shoot at a higher shutter speed
like 1/320 1/250
reason for this
thats what the client wants
they want crisp shots they can use for posters, ads, etc
they want alot of keepers
and they dont want any part of the car to be blurry, which in many cases when it comes to drifting that will happen
parts of the car will be in focus and parts wont because the tail end tends to move at a different speed then the front end

also if you get a good angle when the cars are coming straight at you drifting
a higher shutter speed is actually better for that since there is very little panning in that area

if I had my way though, I'd shoot at a lower speed, but thats not what I'm getting paid for so I don't

[Michael Chu]

Even at 1/125 (which I think of as the "safe" speed), you get just a nice touch of blur while maintaining full crisp all over the car, but it dpends on the track though. I typically shoot around 1/60-1/100 depending. Sometimes I'll feel brave and go into 1/30-1/50 but keeper rate goes pretty down

[Steve Demmitt]

the reality of it all is
there is no right or wrong shutter speed to shoot at
it depends on what you are trying to deliver

[Steve Demmitt]

or maybe I just need to get one of these =)
http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Mitsubishi-Electric-Develops-Deblurring-Flutter-Shutter-Camera-Partners-with-MITU-of-Toronto.htm

[John Thawley]

I know for Canon, the IS can be put in '1 way' and '2 way' modes. 2 way = both vertical and horizontal stabilization, 1 way = 1 or the other. The 1 way is perfect for panning shots. Does VR not have this option?

IS is useless for panning... modes 1 or 2.

IS does not eliminate shake... it eliminates a certain degree of tremble when shooting in conditions that require a shutter speed 1 stop less than you can physically hand hold. ie; if you are shooting with a 200mm lens, the rule of thumb is don't shoot below 1/200th of second. Well is you're at f2.8 and can't do better than 1/125, IS will give you some help by simulating an extra stop. Beyond that.... you're on your own.

Panning with IS on slows the autofocus and the gyro tends to jump.... ironically just as you're about to shoot. :)

The reality is, in low light conditions, IS will buy you an additional stop. That's it. It is of no benefit for panning.

JT

[John Thawley]

I shoot at a higher shutter speed
like 1/320 1/250
reason for this
thats what the client wants
they want crisp shots they can use for posters, ads, etc
they want alot of keepers
and they dont want any part of the car to be blurry, which in many cases when it comes to drifting that will happen
parts of the car will be in focus and parts wont because the tail end tends to move at a different speed then the front end

also if you get a good angle when the cars are coming straight at you drifting
a higher shutter speed is actually better for that since there is very little panning in that area

Well, there's something to be said about educating your customers.... it makes them better customers and will help KEEP them as your customers. :)

if I had my way though, I'd shoot at a lower speed, but thats not what I'm getting paid for so I don't

I'm glad you said that.

[John Thawley]

the reality of it all is
there is no right or wrong shutter speed to shoot at
it depends on what you are trying to deliver

What I'm looking for is the shot of the PASSWORD car in your portfolio/web site. That shot speaks volumes about what is going on.

JT

[Steve Demmitt]

I wouldn't quite make that assumption that I don't educate my customers
I actually find that quite insulting
They have told me although the shots look better with a lower shutter speed
They need the car as crisp as possible while still allowing some motion in the wheels

If you look at the ad campaign of formula d, the posters, banners, flyers, all of which I have shot
you will notice that alot of the cars have been cut out and photoshopped into a design
They need crisp shots of the cars and many times the background is irrelevant
This is something they told me from that start of the 2nd year

This may or may not apply to some people who shoot these types of events
But when it comes to the work I have to supply for Formula D, I have to shoot at a higher shutter speed

[Steve Demmitt]

What I'm looking for is the shot of the PASSWORD car in your portfolio/web site. That shot speaks volumes about what is going on.

JT


resized for web its a nice shot
the background is motion blurred in photoshop

blow it up nice and big
its not a very crisp shot
parts of the car are blurry, mainly because the car doesnt travel in a fluid motion
since the tail will whip out in a drift many times it will cause the shot to look blurry in certain sections of the car
this becomes more apparent as you lower the shutter speed

[Jacob Leveton]

IS is useless for panning... modes 1 or 2.

i don't own an IS lens... but...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=234444&is=USA&addedTroughType=search

Two-stage Image Stabilization can correct for all types of camera shake or just up/down shake (for use when panning with a moving subject)

those specs i'm pretty sure are straight from canon

The VR is useless anyways for drifting. With more practice, I'm sure you'll start nailing the 1/30 shots.

1/30?! are you out of your mind?!

Of all the people I know who have been touring with the Formula D series in the past 3 years, the lowest I've heard anyone nailing a pan shot is 1/50. If you can come out and shoot 1/30 and get 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 keepers, i'll pay you $50 cold hard cash. I really don't think it can be done, and definately not with regularity at different tracks. Drifting is just too inconsistent and irregular.

[John Thawley]

I wouldn't quite make that assumption that I don't educate my customers
I actually find that quite insulting
They have told me although the shots look better with a lower shutter speed
They need the car as crisp as possible while still allowing some motion in the wheels

If you look at the ad campaign of formula d, the posters, banners, flyers, all of which I have shot
you will notice that alot of the cars have been cut out and photoshopped into a design
They need crisp shots of the cars and many times the background is irrelevant
This is something they told me from that start of the 2nd year

This may or may not apply to some people who shoot these types of events
But when it comes to the work I have to supply for Formula D, I have to shoot at a higher shutter speed

I apologize if you are insulted. It was not meant as a "personal" comment or attack on you... and is rather a business philosophy.

Glad things are going well for you.

JT

[Todd Spoth]

1/30?! are you out of your mind?! Of all the people I know who have been touring with the Formula D series in the past 3 years, the lowest I've heard anyone nailing a pan shot is 1/50. If you can come out and shoot 1/30 and get 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 keepers, i'll pay you $50 cold hard cash. I really don't think it can be done, and definately not with regularity at different tracks. Drifting is just too inconsistent and irregular.

as someone whos shot dozens of FD's and other drifting events i agree.

[Todd Corzett]

Not to get in the middle of the other stuff... but like JT said, IS is useless for panning (regardless of what Canon/Nikon tries to sell you).

Why? Because panning has to do with moving the camera/lens with the SUBJECT, and IS just limits the movement of the LENS. This is actually the exact opposite of what you want when panning, even in mode 2. No moving object will be going perfectly in one axis (hence why mode 2 doesn't help). You need to move the camera with the SUBJECT and all of its motions. IS does not know what the subject is doing, only what the LENS is doing. So, if you're moving the lens with the subject... IS detects movement in the lens... it then tries to remove it... and thus keeping the camera/lens from moving with the SUBJECT.

Now, if you're trying to hold a lens still on a still object (especially in low light when you can't just use higher shutter speeds)... IS is great! But for panning... it is useless.

-Todd...