Question for Track Day shooters

[Brent Smith]

Do any of the participants ever question you selling them a photo of themselves, and that they should have the photo for free since they are the subject? If so how do you respond?

[Curtis Creager]

Are you talking about lapping day events? I haven't been asked that question before, but I've only shot a few of these events in the past three years. As strange as this might sound I also have an agreement with another photog to not shot at these events when he is shooting. Most of the time he's shooting while I am instructing so I have no time to be shlooging around the track.

What has been your experience? What do you charge for pics, does the club or school announce you as the photographer for the day and if you want images to talk with you etc.?

[Bill Jurasz]

Do any of the participants ever question you selling them a photo of themselves, and that they should have the photo for free since they are the subject? If so how do you respond?
Ummm.... would they say the same of a portrait photographer selling them a pic of themself? :) If you think of it, that photo is only of value to them. If you don't sell the photo to them, who else is going to buy it?

[Jeff Kapic]

Do any of the participants ever question you selling them a photo of themselves, and that they should have the photo for free since they are the subject? If so how do you respond?


Since you took the photo, you are the owner of the photo. Since he is most likely the only one who would want that photo, he needs to come up with a solution (enter $$ here) to get that from you. It is worth some amount of money because you are the one who put in the work to get the picture. Not just pressing the shutter, but all the time you have spent shooting and gaining experience. But, the bottom line is, you took the picture, so you own it.

Jeff

[Brent Smith]

I've never shot a track day/lapping event. 90% of my stuff is weekly Saturday night dirt track events. There has been a discussion going on one of the local boards about who has the rights to photos. Some of the drivers feel that since that is their car and likeness in the image then they should get the picture for free. I think John mentioned something along the lines of "the pic is free but his services is what he is charging for". That sounds pretty good to me. I was just curious if others have encountered this issue before.

[John Thawley]

Ok... this disucssion is all over the board.

Let's look at a couple of REAL aspects of what's in play here.

1. YOU own the copright to the image. The minute you press the shutter, the copyright is in place. It's your intellectual property.

2. The driver owns the rights to USE of his image and likeness.

What does this mean?

It means, YOU cannot use the photo containing his likeness or image for commercial gain without his permission. So, since his likeness/image is contained in your photo, you can't sell it to an advertiser.. you can't use it in an ad to promote your business... etc. etc. without a model release from that individual.**

That's it. End of story.

So.... if he would like a copy of YOUR photo containing his image, he will need to compensate you for your time, material, expertise and intellectual property. If he doesn't care to do this, he can go piss up a rope.

Now, if his likeness is not recognizable in the image... in other words, if it's just some guy driving his car around the track and all you can see is his silhouette.... then all bets are off. If you have permission of the track to be there shooting, all bets are off. You can do whatever you want with the photo.

** EVEN IF his face was recognizable, arguably he still may not have rights to anything. It's not like his image or likeness is an asset to his livelihood.... that's assuming he's not Brad Pitt or someone who makes a living off their likeness or image. Hence, you can't go to a NASCAR race, grab a shot of Dale Jr. and put it up on eBay. His likeness is stock in trade.

At the end of the day, people have a REASONABLE right to privacy. If you go out in public, you're kind of waiving that right. I can't stick my lens through a window and photograph you... that would be violating your right to privacy. But, if you're walking down the street... or lapping on a race track... you're fair game. If you want proof, just pick up the National Enquirer.

So, basically, print up a price list for prints... hand it to them. They can either buy them or whip out their cell phone and take a self portrait has they tool down the back straight. Those are pretty much the two choices.

[Aaron Kupferman]

+1 to everything that John said. You own the photo and have every right to sell them the photo, digital or a print. My whole business is based around track day photos and thankfully everybody at the events I shoot understand that they have to pay for the photos of themselves. That is the service I provide.

[Doug DeVetter]

As primarily a consumer of the info posted on this forum, I want to refresh my "Thank you" to the knowledgeable people who provide such fantastic responses. What may sound like a very basic question, when answered thoughtfully by experienced people, really helps a lot of people out.

Thank you all.