releases ruined my vacation plans!

[Ken Visser]

I work for the Discovery Channel. An automotive property was interested in using one of my car show images as a "core" image. Usage would have been for one year, unlimited, print and video. The image featured a kit Cobra and about 15 cars in the background. The Cobra manufacturer was a small time company and went out of business about 15 years ago.

I was really surprised by the generic image they chose but who am I to say anything about taste? It was going to be a nice fee that would have taken my whole family to Disneyland. And then the lawyers got involved. They wanted a release from every one of the car manufacturers involved. I was able to get owner releases but the corporations proved ponderous and ultimately impossible to deal with. The lawyers would not sign off on the image since we could not get a release from the out of business manufacturer. The end result is another image was chosen. I ended up recreating the shot with 12 cars, got signed releases from all the owners and resubmitted the image. The other image was chosen.

I have a standard release form I use for car owners but what is necessary on the manufacturer's front? With a modified car, a what point does a car cease to be Mercury and morph into a custom lead sled?

After having researched the subject and spoken with several experts in the Cobra field, it turns out that the only part that Caroll Shelby (who is evidently, extremely litigious) is the 427 badge on the side and the Cobra logo on the hood. I spoke with one of the principles of Superformance and he was happy to have the exposure and would have gladly signed off on the release.

I wanted to see what others on the board owner and manufacturer releases.

ken

[Ken Visser]

duh...

Posted this in the wrong forum, please move as appropriate to copyright

Sorry

ken

[Ken Visser]

Now that this post is in the correct section, the question as I see it, is if a manufacturer is long out of business, is a release necessary?

For example, you shoot a Delahaye with an owner's permission, do you need to seek out a release if the company has been out of business for 50 years? What about a Bugatti from the 30's. Here is the wikpedia entry: The original company is legendary for producing some of the most exclusive cars in the world as well as some of the fastest. The original Bugatti brand failed with the coming of World War II, like many high-end marques of the time. The death of Ettore's son Jean was also a contributory factor. The company struggled financially and released one last model in the 1950s before eventually being purchased for its airplane parts business in the 1960s.

Do you need a release from the current company in order to market an owner released shot of a Type 57? I guess the current iteration of Bugatti must have the copyrights to the logo and models that pre-existed.

I have read thru a bunch of post in this section and understand the need for manufacturer's releases. I wish I was big enough on my own to attain some of those relationships but that is more difficult for a loner. Now Discovery on the other hand, has a photo rights group that is working on those relationships and we might get some where.

regards

ken

[David Adolphus]

I have never once sought, nor been bothered about, a manufacturer release, nor has my company--our editorial images end up on corporate merchandise all the time.

[Mike Ditz]

What is an automotive property?

[Ken Visser]

What is an automotive property?

We are converting one of our existing channels to one devoted to automobiles. It is my goal in life at this point to get on that channel. I guess the question is when and whether we will convert over, given the existing economic climate.

regards

ken

[Mike Ditz]

so it's a tv show?

[Steve Stein]

Ken,

Even if a company is out of business, the rights to the brand still might be owned by a third party. What comes to mind is Polaroid. They went under and liquidated, but someone owned the rights to the name and sold the crap out of it for a few years.

You might check Moody's to see if the name is still registered and/or doing business as.

Good luck on your search.

[Ken Visser]

so it's a tv show?

No, its a tv channel, devoted the subject of cars.

regards

ken

[Morgan J Segal]

Make sure it doesn't turn into another SPEED Channel :rolleyes:


I provided photos to a calendar for Car and Driver a few times and they had to get permission from the manufacturers, they did the leg work, but I was specifically asked not to provide photos of cars from companies that no longer exist.

[Ken Spurgin]

Ken,
So after reading your post....
Im curious, can you show us the photos ?

Thanks

[Perry Bennett]

Can you give us more details on this automotive channel?

[Ken Visser]

Ken,
So after reading your post....
Im curious, can you show us the photos ?

Thanks

As I had mentioned earlier, I was really surprized at the photo they chose. They wanted shots of open hood cars at a car show. I fowarded about 35 shots that I had in that vein and here is what they chose: http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/karmakvisser/photography%20samples/ddcobradavetoy01lr.jpg

The image was heavily reworked to remove the van from the background. One version had the cars in the back blurred.

Then the lawyers got involved. Since the manufacturer of the cobra in the foreground was defunct, I could not get a release, therefore, they would not use the picture.


So then I set about recreating the photo using a friend's superformance 427 Cobra. First I spoke with the manufacturer who was more then happy to sign a release. Then I convinced about 15 of my hot rod friends to bring out various cars to re-create the shoot. We are talking Maryland in the winter time, it was the second weekend in January and there was the threat of snow. Hot rod guys normally don't bring out their cars in any kind of weather, especially, if the roads have been treated. The green GTO in the picture is a 100 point car and has never seen a wet pavement in its restored life. Yet, as a favor to me he and others came out. I blew 50 bucks at Dunken Donuts on coffee and the little round things. I figured if these guys were going to make the effort, I better get them fed. My buddy in the Cobra drove some distance with no top. He was freezing.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/karmakvisser/photography%20samples/ddwk0209081cobralr-1.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g311/karmakvisser/photography%20samples/ddwk0209090vettelr-1.jpg

Well, I did the photoshoot, the weather was crappy the sky was grey but I got something somewhat usable...and then the lawyers got involved, again! Now they wanted signoff on all the manufacturers and that just became a huge cluster f&ck. So the Turbo folks went with some other lame shot and I lost my unexpected Disney bound windfall.

On the plus side, I am more exposed to the Turbo folks and hope to expand on that relationship. I am currently working with Gerry Durnell of Automobile Quarterly on a co-production concept for Turbo.

regards

Ken

[Mike Ditz]

Make sure it doesn't turn into another SPEED Channel :rolleyes:


I provided photos to a calendar for Car and Driver a few times and they had to get permission from the manufacturers, they did the leg work, but I was specifically asked not to provide photos of cars from companies that no longer exist.

Golly, in a year or two that list could include Chrysler, and GM ..:eek: