CPL filter on sunset shots with a white car?

[Felix Winqvist]

Hi guys, I am shooting a white Porsche GT3 today around sunset, just wondering if you guys would use a CPL filter or not. Also, do any of you use it during night pics?

TIA

Felix

[Jeff Wilson]

Check the setup through the CPL before you shoot to determine if it will help or not. If it looks better with it, then use it, otherwise don't use it and give yourself the extra 2/3 stop of light.

A lot depends on location and how you have the car positioned relative to the setting sun. FWIW, I don't use CPL's at night.

[Felix Winqvist]

Check the setup through the CPL before you shoot to determine if it will help or not. If it looks better with it, then use it, otherwise don't use it and give yourself the extra 2/3 stop of light.

A lot depends on location and how you have the car positioned relative to the setting sun. FWIW, I don't use CPL's at night.


Thank you Jeff, really apreciate it! :)

[Daniel Buck]

I tend not to, because most polarizers and filters tend to add a bit of flare, especially if you have the headlights on, or a very bright sun disk off camera. If you have one bring it, can't hurt to try for your own learning experience at the very least :-)

I used to use them all the time, until I started getting really picky about the quality of my captures. Their effect can be quite nice, but the flare I didn't like, sometimes it was just a subtle contrast loss, other times it was an obvious flare from headlights and bright spots on the car.

[Jeff Wilson]

Out of curiousity, what CPLs were you using, Daniel? I've used several types and I've only had problems with cheaper brands like Tiffen in particular. The Hoya Pro 1's I use now have no such problems. I should mention that I also use them with a hood.

[Daniel Buck]

The hood might be the problem. The hood on my main shooting lens attaches to the lens, not the filter threads, so it makes it difficult to use both, so I usually left off the hood. I believe the brand was B+W, can't remember if it was multi coated or not. That might also be the problem :-)

The flares weren't huge, they were usually pretty subtle.

[John Jovic]

Felix

I use a Polariser pretty much all the time, except night pics. The polariser cold potentially still be usefull at night but I find it cuts the light down too much and makes focusing difficult as well.

Daniel

I haven't had any problems with flare from a polariser though I do use the coated B+W most of the time and I almost always have a hood on the lens. I do get flare from headlights and similar very bright reflections when using any grads, either the plastic Cokin P's or the glass Tiffen grads. You really do need to pay attention to that kind of thing, especially during night shots where you can get flare from any bright light source in the image.

JJ

[Jacob Leveton]

I think that the polarizer might actually help you since it will cut 2/3 of a stop and you're shooting a white car. You'll have a higher dynamic range with a white car than any other color when shooting mid-day... so an ND filter or CP will help you with the lighting.

[Daniel Buck]

Felix

I use a Polariser pretty much all the time, except night pics. The polariser cold potentially still be usefull at night but I find it cuts the light down too much and makes focusing difficult as well.

Daniel

I haven't had any problems with flare from a polariser though I do use the coated B+W most of the time and I almost always have a hood on the lens. I do get flare from headlights and similar very bright reflections when using any grads, either the plastic Cokin P's or the glass Tiffen grads. You really do need to pay attention to that kind of thing, especially during night shots where you can get flare from any bright light source in the image.

JJ


yes, I have noticed that my cokins flare, they flare alot worse than my polarizer. That's a shame too, because the grads could be so effective! Maybe I should get a multi coated polarizer and give it a shot. I have a B+W "mrc" polarizer that I use on my 50 and 28mm zeiss lenses, I don't notice much flare when I'm using it then, but then again I'm not usually shooting a car with them, I think I should do a test and see if the flare goes away when I use my 50 with the multicoated polarizer.

[Jeff Wilson]

I use the Cokins a lot, and I ended up buying a Lee bellows hood for P size filters. It helps with glare/flare, but I still notice a significant loss of contrast from the Cokins that I think is due to the resin material they are made from.

I'm strongly considering moving completely to the 4" Lee filter system, but my god it's expensive!

[Daniel Buck]

I wonder if the Lee's are much better? I asked on Fred Miranda once, and someone who had a few of the systems (or at least a few differnet brands of grad glass) told me they are all pretty much the same, but the more expensive grads have a bit less flare, but still noticable.

[John Jovic]

I have a few glass Tiffen grads, along with a selection of Cokins, and find that the glass filters also flare. The only reason the glass Tiffens might be better is because they don't scratch like the Cokins do. I believe the Lee filters are also plastic/resin so maybe they suffer the same problems as Cokins.

I've heard a few people claiming that the Sing Rays are the best. I've never used them. They offer a range of transitions, from quite a hard edge to a smoother, longer transition from grad to clear.

[Jeff Wilson]

From what I've seen/heard/read, the Lee's are much better than the Cokins, but you still have to use them properly. Ultimately it comes down to being a big flat piece of glass or resin, so it's going to flare if you don't have a hood or flag it properly.

I don't have a flare problem with the cokins - I use a hood, as I said, and I also have a clamp on flag that I keep on my tripod to block direct light - but they do cause the image to lose contrast.

To give you an idea what can be done though, this image is using four filters (Cokin Sunset 2, ND4 grad, ND2 and a Hoya Pro 1 CPL)

http://www.jw-photo.com/events/pictures/_MG_2423.jpg

I don't think that's too bad for shooting straight into the sun. ;)

[Jacob Leveton]

any post work on that photo, jeff? i agree it's a killer shot, but if there's a lto of post work into it, then it's moot

[Mark Delbrueck]

any post work on that photo, jeff? i agree it's a killer shot, but if there's a lto of post work into it, then it's moot

Looks like there is a slight halo around the car, plus he forgot to darken the windows to match the BG :p

There is going to be lots of post work anytime you are shooting into the sun. Even if you counter the shadow of your subject with portable lighting, you are going to encounter a good amount of post work.

I'd highly recommend Singh-Ray's if anybodys interested. I've got a 3-stop hard reverse grad I use for all my landscape work. I hardly shoot without it. Of course, unless you position the car below your perfectly-strait horizon line, then you'll want a soft grad.

[Jacob Leveton]

here's my comment. he said:

To give you an idea what can be done though, this image is using four filters (Cokin Sunset 2, ND4 grad, ND2 and a Hoya Pro 1 CPL)

if there's post work, then it needs to be mentioned. This is an idea of what can be done with said filters AND post work. Some people aren't as good at post work as others are, and if there is post work involved, it needs to be stated so people aren't disappointed with their results.

[Jeff Wilson]

any post work on that photo, jeff? i agree it's a killer shot, but if there's a lto of post work into it, then it's moot

I may have uploaded the wrong version of that one, let me double check when I get home. I have one that I did some work on and one that I was pretty raw. My bad....(maybe)

[Daniel Buck]

yes, shooting into the sunset (or sunrise) usually requires alot of post work, but in my opinion those images turn out to be the best looking, when they have been properly worked on in post. A grad filter will get you 1/2 the way there, but post is still required, at least thats what my experience has been. (I pretty much shoot exclusively into the sunset when shooting cars now)

The trick though, is to make the image look as if there has been no post work done to it, no edges or blending masks visible. :) Unless you like edges and odd blobs of value/contrast halos in your image :D

[Jeff Wilson]

untouched, just resized version of above image:

http://www.jw-photo.com/events/pictures/T_MG_2423.jpg

I still don't think that's bad for shooting into the sun with four filters.

[Felix Winqvist]

Just got back, didnt use a CPL...
Quite tricky to shoot a white car paired with an orange sky!

http://www.upshizzle.com/gallery/albums/uploaded/8.06/GT3RS1.jpg

[Felix Winqvist]

God I wish I had a decent flash/alien bees.
http://www.upshizzle.com/gallery/albums/uploaded/8.06/GT3RS2.jpg

[Mark Delbrueck]

Felix, that first shot is to die for! Great work!! Some post work on that second shot could really make it pop!

[Jacob Leveton]

i agree! first shot is hot, 2nd shot isn't far off! i think you did grand!