Paul Barth - At the mall

[John Thawley]

Well.... it wasn't really Paul Barth... but it was his female counterpart... yes, your friendly mall cop... or is that Mall Security... or Public Safety Officer... not sure what the PC industry nomenclature is these days.

While strolling around the lovely Waterside Shops in Naples, Florida... an outdoor mall full of fountains and public areas along with shops like Gucci, Louis Litton, Polo, Tiffany etc. etc., I was approached by our friendly mall gendarme and ordered to STOP taking photos with instructions that I'm only allowed to take photos with authorization from the owners of the mall.

Wrong.... bursting button breath.

I immediately informed her that a.) she was wrong. b.) what she was doing was illegal and c.) if she insisted, she would need to arrest me.

Her stuttered response was one of initially being stunned.... and then launch into another recital of her instructions.

To which I responded...

"Now see... you're doing it again. It is against the law for you to do what you are doing. I'm a professional photographer. I know the law and you are absolutely breaking the law each time you tell me I can't take photos here. I'm not bothering anyone. I'm not disrupting the mall's traffic or ability to do business, I'm simply enjoying my visit and taking pictures. You can not stop me. And, you can not ask me to stop. So, if you want to arrest me, let's get on with it."

Oh my.... made my day. Her response was, "I'm just telling you what they tell me." To which I responded, "well, they are telling you to break the law. What would you like to do."

She walked away. LOL

I'm of course absolutely right. However, if these morons knew anything about anything, her recourse is to simply ask me to leave the mall. THAT she can do. The mall is open to the public and I am an invited guest of the mall. However, the minute she asks me to leave, my invitation is revoked and my visit now becomes trespassing. But even at that, I can take photos all the while I'm leaving and it is not illegal. She can not stop me or ask me to stop taking photos.

Either way, she made my day. LOL

JT

[Steve Stein]

JT,

A friend and I were at a place across the river in Cincinnati called Newport on the Levee. Same type of outdoor mall. Funny thing was, we were just carrying our gear through the mall, not taking any shots. Hell, we even had dinner at one of their fine establishments along with a couple of beers. But since we were carrying our gear along with tripods, we were singled out as being "professional" photographers. Of course, everyone with a P&S was firing away around us, the mall cop singled us out. We ask why and pre-Blart had a written "rules of conduct" handed to us. As plain as day, it said "No photography unless given written permission." We pointed out the P&S folks around us and pre-Blart did tell them not to shoot. Since that day, I haven't set foot on their property as has a number of other photographers I know. My wife hates me for that since she liked to go there.

So after a forum I used to belong to had something over 500 hits about this subject and was number 3 on Google when searching NOTL, they modified their photography policy to make it more restrictive to include media folks.

Now I can see trying to shoot inside a store or blocking walkways, but shooting outdoor concerts and performances for your own enjoyment goes a little far. From what I understand, they wanted for the photographer to cut them in with a permit to shoot. I heard the same thing about some parks in NYC where you want to shoot the skyline the park rangers drive you out or want you to buy a permit. So as long as they post the rules of conduct and enforce them for everyone (including cell phone cameras), they can pretty much dictate what they want since it's private property. It really sucks, but I figure they lost some business from a lot of people I know, so they can stick their policy up their...

Here's NOTL Rules of Conduct on photography and video:
Soliciting, picketing or rallying, conducting of surveys, distributing literature, offering any items for sale, soliciting signatures or personal information of any kind (including names, phone numbers, etc.), or unauthorized photography and video taping is strictly prohibited. All professional photography or photos of venues must be approved by Property Management. This measure also includes the news media.

[Chris Kelly]

The problem is with intellectually deficient persons in a position of power. She, quite obviously, was not the sharpest tool in the shed. Her supervisor is, quite obviously as well, in the same boat but is acting as coxswain.

Intelligent security solutions cost money (either in material or smart decision makers), this mall is obviously not willing to spend for those intelligent solutions.

Sadly, scenarios similar to this are described all too frequently on the various boards.

[Mike Ditz]

I was shooting pictures at the Somerset Collection in Troy MI after they opened up a new even higher priced part. I was working for the mall, I had the agency person and mall PR people with me. A security guard wanted to us to stop shooting, it actually took about a half hour to clear it up. Turns out the top Paul Blartt was off that day so the Jr. Blartts were being extra zealous...

[Steve Stein]

Funny, mall PR person couldn't convince them that they work there?

Busting photographers while pickpockets and shoplifters clean out the stores and people.

John, did you have your Leica?

[John Thawley]

Funny, mall PR person couldn't convince them that they work there?

Busting photographers while pickpockets and shoplifters clean out the stores and people.

John, did you have your Leica?

That's the funny part, I did. I mean... this is a tourist town for goodness sake. What do they expect?

I can understand if you're blocking the walk with a tri-pod or if you're conducting a quasi-commercial shoot... but I'm just a guy with a camera around my neck and a shoulder bag. But even if I'd have been paparazzi following Madonna around or a journalist shooting a robbery or arrest, they have no right to tell me I can't do it.

Oh well, it was fun. I just wish she'd had been on a Segue... would have made for a great photo. :)

[Steve Stein]

The shoulder bag gave it away. Everyone knows a Leica digital isn't a "professional" camera. :)

Next time try your iPhone camera. Do that while there's a security person there. See if they say anything or make you put your cell phone away.

What's this world coming to?

[Aaron Kupferman]

If you guys want to follow other stories along these similar lines (in the US as well as across the pond), check out the Photo Attorney blog (http://www.photoattorney.com). Part of my Google Reader daily reading.

[Steve Stein]

Aaron,

I've read that blog in the past. Thanks for the reminder. Now bookmarked as a regular read.

Steve

[Steve Stein]

This look familier?

http://web.me.com/aaronandpatty/What_the_Duck/Comic_Strips/Entries/2009/4/27_WTD_697_files/WTD697.gif

[John Hegg]

Is a victorious Paul Barth encounter supposed to feel good?
I was taking pictures of the sunrise over Chicago 5:30am this morning from a CTA commuter rail platform, camera nowhere close to being pointed at any CTA facility. Face in camera pointed at the sunrise. I hear “Are you taking pictures of buildings?” Me: Nope. Face still in camera. I hear “Are you taking pictures of the Property? (translation= CTA Rail Station property) Me: Nope. Out of the corner of my eye I see Mr. Bright White Uniform Shirt (Mr.BWUS) and Cop style hat, this is a CTA Rail Station Supervisor. Mr.BWUS: You can’t take pictures on the CTA since 9/11. Me: (fellow CTA employee unbeknownst to him). You need to read our Photo and Video policy on our website. Mr.BWUS: Are you are member (translation=employee) of the CTA. Me: Yes. Mr.BWUS: I’ll go check out the policy now. Me: Good idea. After taking a couple of pics of Mr.BWUS while boarding the train, he comes on an asks for my ID# and I ask for his. Then Mr.BWUS says again: I’m going to check it out now. Me: That would be a good thing. YEA!
We will see what happens tomorrow.

Policy: http://www.transitchicago.com/business/photopolicy.aspx