71 Challenger

[Morgan J Segal]

I don't normally care for muscle cars, but while I was on an assignment at Portland International raceway last week, this car showed up. It was so well done, I just had to take a pic. So I grabbed the owner when I had a few seconds and (really) quickly took this one

http://www.mjswebgallery.com/Challenger2.jpg

[Daniel Buck]

I like the car :D

I think the cropping seems to be a bit tight on the car, maybe a bit more room would be on order?

[Morgan J Segal]

Why? there is nothing more to show around the car (I was forced to shoot it tight because they're were trash barrels and people all over the place)

[Daniel Buck]

guess it's just a personal taste thing, just seems a little tight to me.

[Morgan J Segal]

That's a strange answer considering that many of your shots (on your website) are as tight or tighter? :confused:

I don't disagree with you, and I usually only shoot that tight when forced by the environment, but I feel that by giving the room at the top offsets much of the tightness L&R in the composition.

If you're going to critique (in the non critique forum), you need to back up your statements with some substance ;)

[Dylan Wiggins]

judging by just the yellow paint, that thing must weight at least 6000lbs ;)

[Morgan J Segal]

Yeah, it was a really serious "Resto rod" Wish I had more time with it to shoot the details

[Todd Corzett]

Very nice... especially considering the circumstances of the shot. The only thing that distracts my mind a little (and it's really not that big of a deal) is that the vertical supports of the grandstand aren't totally vertical (they seem to be leaning to the right a little). It may be how it was, but my brain wants to make them vertical. Really just a nit-pick thing... you know what you like, just my opinion. I really like how all the "ducks are in a row" (my phrase for the day), and there are no distractions with the car (windows part way down, wheels cranked one direction, etc.). Very classy... very professional!

-Todd...

[Mark Delbrueck]

Nice shot, I too think its a bit tight. If it were me, I'd leave a bit more room in front of the car, but what the hell do I know.

[Morgan J Segal]

Nice shot, I too think its a bit tight. If it were me, I'd leave a bit more room in front of the car, but what the hell do I know.

I'll ask you too, why does it need more room in front of the car?

[Morgan J Segal]

Very nice... especially considering the circumstances of the shot. The only thing that distracts my mind a little (and it's really not that big of a deal) is that the vertical supports of the grandstand aren't totally vertical (they seem to be leaning to the right a little).
-Todd...


Ahhh! I had not noticed that, now that is all I see :mad:


I am actually not really interested in hearing about the composition, I literally took the shot in less than a minute. If anything, I am more interested in hearing about the post effect applied, such as the vignetting, soft focus, grain (which may have been lost on the internet), and the heavy contrast.

[Daniel Buck]

That's a strange answer considering that many of your shots (on your website) are as tight or tighter? :confused: I didn't say I like all my shots tight, I said that this one looks like it might be a bit tight. Did I rub you the wrong way or something? If so, I apologize.

If you're going to critique (in the non critique forum), you need to back up your statements with some substance ;) so how would you like me to reply then? I just gave my opinion, what more substance do you want? If I were to say it looked a bit to dark, do I have to blur the image and show you that the average pixel value is darker than 18% grey? it's subjective. :)

[Morgan J Segal]

I didn't say I like all my shots tight, I said that this one looks like it might be a bit tight. Did I rub you the wrong way or something? If so, I apologize.




No I wanted you to expand on why you thought it was too tight, just saying it's your personal taste is meaningless and does not teach anyone anything (you know the whole point of the forum)

You did not rub me the wrong way, but I did find it a bit of a hypocritical comment considering many of your shots are similar. i.e. why is this shot too tight but yours are not? It would seem that your personal taste is tight images, so I was trying to get you to explain your reasoning

If I told you I did not like your photo because it's just my personal taste, you would not really know why I thought it was bad and you would not learn anything that you could use towards your next photo.

so how would you like me to reply then? I just gave my opinion, what more substance do you want? If I were to say it looked a bit to dark, do I have to blur the image and show you that the average pixel value is darker than 18% grey? it's subjective. :)

You could say it was too dark and detail was being lost in the shadows, or your highlights have gone flat, there is no "punch" because it is too dark, or the color is looking muddy because it is too dark, etc.

[Daniel Buck]

well, you did say it was a "very quick" shot, I only post shots that I spend time on, if you are going to start comparing shots. :D Some of my shots have tight cropping, some have more open space around the car. Enough, I'll drop it.

I do like the background, it's got so much going on (all the beams and such) that instead of being a distraction, it actually lets the smooth reflections of the car stand out, this doesn't happen to often, but it looks good.

[Morgan J Segal]

well, you did say it was a "very quick" shot, I only post shots that I spend time on, if you are going to start comparing shots. :D Some of my shots have tight cropping, some have more open space around the car. Enough, I'll drop it.

I do like the background, it's got so much going on (all the beams and such) that instead of being a distraction, it actually lets the smooth reflections of the car stand out, this doesn't happen to often, but it looks good.

You're missing the point, I don't really care what you thought of the photo ( that's why I did not post it in the critique forum), but since you went and critiqued it anyway, I was trying to get you to do a better job of it ;)

[Mark Delbrueck]

I'll ask you too, why does it need more room in front of the car?

I think the car is posed like its ready for action, so it nautally leads your eye to the front of the frame (or left), which is why I'd like to see some more space in front of the car. I'm sure I'm wrong, but just my .02 Cents.

[Morgan J Segal]

I think the car is posed like its ready for action, so it nautally leads your eye to the front of the frame (or left), which is why I'd like to see some more space in front of the car. I'm sure I'm wrong, but just my .02 Cents.


See, now was that so hard? LOL:D

[Dylan Wiggins]

I will try my hand at this and say that the majority of the detail in the photo is stuffed in the lower left of the frame so it doesn't quite make your brain think that the entire car is centered. Instead I have to keep reminding myself that there isn't a bunch of empty space behind the car, it's the car body itself that is just void of details compared to the front of the car. It doesn't matter though, I can smell the torque from the photo

[Steve Alvine]

As far as being to tight---I think if you were going to frame it it would look a litle awkward. The frame would feel consricting to the image. Overall I like it and I think It works, It just might look a little better hanging on the wall w/ a little more space. Of course the shoot is over and it can't be redone so why are we dwelling on it?:o

[Daniel Buck]

You're missing the point, I don't really care what you thought of the photo ( that's why I did not post it in the critique forum), but since you went and critiqued it anyway, I was trying to get you to do a better job of it ;)

So if you don't want critiques, what are you expecting from us in this section? You didn't pose a question or any thing like that to start up discussion, just the situation and an image. So, I assumed you wanted critiques. I guess I am missing the point, what is the point since it seems to have illuded me? I'll keep my comments to myself then.

[Morgan J Segal]

So if you don't want critiques, what are you expecting from us in this section? You didn't pose a question or any thing like that to start up discussion, just the situation and an image. So, I assumed you wanted critiques. I guess I am missing the point, what is the point since it seems to have illuded me? I'll keep my comments to myself then.

Daniel, I put the photo here because I was hoping people would enjoy the car and perhaps the shot. There is a forum for critiques (at least that is what I am lead to believe), I specifically did not put the photo there because I was not looking for ways to improve it as it was a photo I did not have much control over the situation and one I did not put much effort into, nor one I was going to get a chance to do again.
Since you went ahead and offered a (unsolicited) critique that was IMO a bit vague, I decided to make you work for it.
If you can't even explain to me the reasoning behind your criticism about a photo, why should I respect your opinion? That is the point

[Daniel Buck]

ok, I'm sorry I miss understood your post, and sorry for railroading it in the wrong direction. To be honest I don't really look at what section the image is in, I just click on the new posts. I'll try to watch what section I'm in next time, and try to explain myself better.

[Morgan J Segal]

ok, I'm sorry I miss understood your post, and sorry for railroading it in the wrong direction. To be honest I don't really look at what section the image is in, I just click on the new posts. I'll try to watch what section I'm in next time, and try to explain myself better.


I understand what your saying, I am just trying to make you think more (and bust your balls a little:D )

[Morgan J Segal]

As far as being to tight---I think if you were going to frame it it would look a litle awkward. The frame would feel consricting to the image. Overall I like it and I think It works, It just might look a little better hanging on the wall w/ a little more space. Of course the shoot is over and it can't be redone so why are we dwelling on it?:o


Well, I shoot commercial and editorial so don't really think in terms of pictures for the wall, but when I do frame work, I print it with a big white border and then have a fat matte ( for example a 11x14 pic would have a 16x20 frame - proper way, but expensive way to frame photos BTW) so I don't think it would be crowded by the frame.

The tightness does not really bother me all that much, but the problem is that it does not leave any room for the art director to crop into the photo or change the shape for the layout.

[Todd Corzett]

there is nothing more to show around the car (I was forced to shoot it tight because they're were trash barrels and people all over the place)

I think this sums-up the reason for not shooting it wider. Yes, you could shoot it with more room in front or behind the car, but there are times when you just CAN'T without introducing distracting elements... in which case, get comments to crop it tighter or recompose without the distractions.

Ahhh! I had not noticed that, now that is all I see :mad:
I hate when stuff like that happens, my mind so often focuses on the details rather than the image as a whole.


I am more interested in hearing about the post effect applied, such as the vignetting, soft focus, grain (which may have been lost on the internet), and the heavy contrast.

I like the soft focus and burning down of the bleachers, but the area near the top of the car stands-out a bit more because of it (maybe burn it down a tad?). I’d say bring in the vignetting effect a bit more (without creating a halo effect on the car). The grain is difficult to see on the web, but it adds to the mood nicely (and not overdone). It seems a bit darker (mood wise) than some of you other work, but it works with the bright color of the car. Like I said earlier... very classy.

-Todd...

[Erik Anderson]

I like it. To improve it, I'd correct the right tilt (as mentioned), and see if you couldn't pull some more detail from the grill and passenger side headlight area. The color is pleasant and I for one, don't think it's too tight. :)

[Tiny Malone]

I think the crop issue deals more with what you were dealing with on the ground and in no way really effects the strength of the composition. Really, other that a few little reflections, the only thing that I might like to see differetnly is a bit more foreground and maybe a light dodge of the grill. I like the DOF and good color too! Now if you would just throw away your silly Nikon's and use Canon you might get somewhere.

[Morgan J Segal]

Now if you would just throw away your silly Nikon's and use Canon you might get somewhere.

Why would I throw away my Nikons for an inferior camera? http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/poke.gif


There is lots of detail in the grill and headlights on my calibrated monitor

[Erik Anderson]

Why would I throw away my Nikons for an inferior camera? http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/poke.gif

How nice to hear that a pro shoots Nikon :)


There is lots of detail in the grill and headlights on my calibrated monitor

I'm home now and there is quite a bit more detail than one the previous monitor (admittedly dark). I still think a bit more detail would be nice, perhaps around the oil pan as well (although that might distract, I'd have to see it to be sure). It's a good shot and I STILL don't think it was too tight :)

P.S. I notice the deliberate (or what appears to be) vignetting. Not sure I wouldn't like it more without it, but it's certainly a 2nd or 3rd glance observation.

P.S.S Did you do any blurring of the stands? It's might be an illusion but the spot above the passenger A-piller appears to be blurred via editing.

[Morgan J Segal]

How nice to hear that a pro shoots Nikon :)



I'm home now and there is quite a bit more detail than one the previous monitor (admittedly dark). I still think a bit more detail would be nice, perhaps around the oil pan as well (although that might distract, I'd have to see it to be sure). It's a good shot and I STILL don't think it was too tight :)

P.S. I notice the deliberate (or what appears to be) vignetting. Not sure I wouldn't like it more without it, but it's certainly a 2nd or 3rd glance observation.

P.S.S Did you do any blurring of the stands? It's might be an illusion but the spot above the passenger A-piller appears to be blurred via editing.


Yes, there is some vignetting and and a bit of blur towards the top

[Tiny Malone]

Yup....just spydered my monitor and you are correct, and thus, I stand corrected. I sorta wish there was a way we could all have a common calibration, especially if we are going to give effective critique. I can only imagine what THOSE conversations would lead to in coming to common ground.LOL I would agree with what Todd says, Daniel would remind me that I am an ignorant coon ass, You (Morgan) would think we are all silly, Jimmy would MF the whole group and then JT would say..."This is how it's gonna be." :p