E-commerce Printing

[Jason T. Barker]

Not intending to duplicate's Austin Langley's 'Online Printing Recommendations?' thread but emphasize more on the e-commerce aspect of selling prints. Not dealing with the money, shipping, or [sometimes] even the customer but simply taking the check as the printer takes their percentage. I saw Dennis Murray mentioned printroom.com in the same thread, who has experience with them? I'd like to hear more, thanks in advance!

[John Thawley]

I hope you're reading your Credential agreements before you start selling. ;)

JT

[Jason T. Barker]

I hope you're reading your Credential agreements before you start selling. ;)

JTThat's a good point, as for the ALMS does that apply to all who attend? I was told it may, even those without credential agreements. I don't think it's mentioned on the general waiver signed when recieving tickets. I researched a little and it appears some tracks don't even allow publishing/viewing of photo's from their events online!

I consider myself as amateur as it gets when it comes to photography with the shoots i've done for personal use or assigned a specific task from a car or team owner.

[Todd Corzett]

I hope you're reading your Credential agreements before you start selling.
This is the reason that I've never had the need to look into this sort of thing... I also don't like the idea of a service taking a percentage of my sales, but I also don't do much volume (so it doesn't take me much time to deal with it myself).

Not to sound like a total PhotoShelter (http://www.photoshelter.com/) supporter, there are many things about it I don't like (mostly related to $$$), but there are many options for selling files and prints (automated through EZ prints, or any other print service you choose). I like the interface (direct uploading via PhotoMechanic and Aperture), the watermarking feature (the images on the server are unwatermarked - so can be used for sales/printing, but when the images are displayed they are watermarked), the image statistics (you can see what is being looked at), passworded/invisible galleries (I used this the other day for a client), and searchability (this is what I'm primarily using it for). They also have some really nice options (given to get the most out of it cost $20/mo - which I really don't like) to integrate with your current website.

I'm not paying the $20/mo (I just can't justify it), but have worked an “advanced” search page into my site (http://www.unitonestudios.com/PhotoShelter/search.html) – try searching “Porsche” for example. I’m not selling prints or files via PhotoShelter. Rather I post low-resolution images for searching... and handle sales off-line... but it is an example of what can be done with it.

-Todd...

[Todd Corzett]

That's a good point, as for the ALMS does that apply to all who attend?
From what I understand, it applies to anyone who doesn't have something that expressly states otherwise. Do you have a written agreement stating the drivers/teams/sponsors/tracks/etc. have given you permission to profit commercially off of their likeness/property/trademarked logos? Basically, for any commercial sales (prints for example) you will need releases from everyone associated. The media credentials don't necessarily provide these releases (most of them anyhow - there are some exceptions I guess with the ALMS "special vested people").

Now, about posting of stuff... if it's editorial, there is not much they can do to stop you... as it is protected by the 1st amendment (then again, it doesn't stop them from not allowing you access in the future).

-Todd...

[Jason T. Barker]

This is the reason that I've never had the need to look into this sort of thing... I also don't like the idea of a service taking a percentage of my sales, but I also don't do much volume (so it doesn't take me much time to deal with it myself).

Not to sound like a total PhotoShelter (http://www.photoshelter.com/) supporter, there are many things about it I don't like (mostly related to $$$), but there are many options for selling files and prints (automated through EZ prints, or any other print service you choose). I like the interface (direct uploading via PhotoMechanic and Aperture), the watermarking feature (the images on the server are unwatermarked - so can be used for sales/printing, but when the images are displayed they are watermarked), the image statistics (you can see what is being looked at), passworded/invisible galleries (I used this the other day for a client), and searchability (this is what I'm primarily using it for). They also have some really nice options (given to get the most out of it cost $20/mo - which I really don't like) to integrate with your current website.

I'm not paying the $20/mo (I just can't justify it), but have worked an “advanced” search page into my site (http://www.unitonestudios.com/PhotoShelter/search.html) – try searching “Porsche” for example. I’m not selling prints or files via PhotoShelter. Rather I post low-resolution images for searching... and handle sales off-line... but it is an example of what can be done with it.

-Todd...Member's fees and cutting into profits aren't exactly on the top of my list either. Also seems like a trust issue with the site...who says they didn't sell 10 of your prints and send you a check for 3? I know you can check the status and they send you notices but still seems like too much room to skim off the top. Who knows, maybe just thinking about it too much?!

[Todd Corzett]

Member's fees and cutting into profits aren't exactly on the top of my list either. Also seems like a trust issue with the site...who says they didn't sell 10 of your prints and send you a check for 3? I know you can check the status and they send you notices but still seems like too much room to skim off the top.

With PhotoShelter the fees are associated with features... like storage amount, web integration, virtual agencies, etc. so it's not too bad when you put it all together. $5.99 for 5GB isn't bad (Printroom is 300MB + $20/100MB with a $99/year membership), but things can get expensive if you want to put LOTS of full-resolution images online. I don't think PhotoShelter is set-up as a print sale place specifically (more of an agency, IMO), but just listing it as an option.

The cutting into profits is going to happen everywhere... that's how they make their money. You are paying them for the convenience of not having to deal with the sales/printing yourself. At high volumes, I would see it being worth it (compared with hiring another person to do it for you).

Trust? Well, besides for being illegal, there isn't much you can do. How do you know the guy at the local lab didn't print-out a couple extra copies to hang on his wall or to sell to his buddies? You just don't. But, there are quite a few photographers using these services, so if there was a problem... I'm sure it would come to the surface quickly. While I don't have any experience with them, I don't think it would be an issue (any more so than the other things we photographers have to deal with - like the people who just look at the gallery, screen capture the watermarked files, and make their own prints).

-Todd...

[Dennis Murray]

Printroom user and advocate. I've been with Printroom for almost two years...they have done well servicing my customers and pay me promptly. I've bought prints from them on occasion (like when I needed a 16x20) and they did a good job with accurate color reporesentation.

Printroom has their own software that you use to manage the galleries you post. You drag and drop photos into it, it does a down-res on them and FTP's up to the site. YOu only upload full size files when you get an order. Saves time uploading (when I do an SCCA/NASA event, I'm uploading several hundred images so it helps only to upload a 40k file versus 2-3 mb's) and it also means you do your post processing on the backend. Of course, that also means getting it 90% right on the camera and just doing minor crops, color correction and enhancement, sharpening before printing.

Other options are photoreflect, exposuremanager, shutterfly's pro service and several others.

Now for the rights and permissions...I only sell for amateur events and only to drivers/team/entrants for personal use.

[Jason T. Barker]

Printroom user and advocate. I've been with Printroom for almost two years...they have done well servicing my customers and pay me promptly. I've bought prints from them on occasion (like when I needed a 16x20) and they did a good job with accurate color reporesentation.

Printroom has their own software that you use to manage the galleries you post. You drag and drop photos into it, it does a down-res on them and FTP's up to the site. YOu only upload full size files when you get an order. Saves time uploading (when I do an SCCA/NASA event, I'm uploading several hundred images so it helps only to upload a 40k file versus 2-3 mb's) and it also means you do your post processing on the backend. Of course, that also means getting it 90% right on the camera and just doing minor crops, color correction and enhancement, sharpening before printing.

Other options are photoreflect, exposuremanager, shutterfly's pro service and several others.

Now for the rights and permissions...I only sell for amateur events and only to drivers/team/entrants for personal use.Thanks Dennis, not to get off topic but do you plan on being at RA this weekend for the Nationals? I recognize your name but can't quite place you, I crew for Sam Lockwood/Raceworks and sometimes Tom Fowler/OPM...I'm planning to be there this weekend assisting AutoFAB w/ their black E30 BMW. Hopefully I'll have time to shoot some!

[Dennis Murray]

For the WERA Nationals next week? I usually don't shoot the bikes for sales since there are already a ton of people selling for Bikes and usually at rock bottom prices. I'm also slammed-busy right now shooting high school football for Greater Atlanta Christian School in Norcross.

I'll shoot the ARRC in November (which is the next SCCA event at RA as far as the website says). If you are an SCCA member and get the Atlanta region newsletter, I've had items in there a number of times. I've also done a lot of work for the national magazine, Sportscar - especially at the ARRC last year. I had a shot that was an inch or so short of double truck.

I've been seeing Tom Fowler rip up ITA since the mid-nineties (when I went just to watch) in that yellow CRX...back when ITS was dominated by Tom Haskell and Sylvan Tremblay's SpeedSource RX-7's.

[Jason T. Barker]

I was told SCCA Nationals were going on, was invited to camp up there again this weekend and help out anyways?! I'll confirm later today. I have a house 5-10 minutes past GAC in Lilburn, it's amazing how many oppurtunities are out there to shoot!

[Jim Kosinski]

My 0.02 cents. I currently use Exposure Manager (http://www.exposuremanager.com/aff/bestlightimages) and am very happy with the service. Very customizable, lots of features (discounts, packages, coupons, etc) and they only take 10%. Being a small timer (and part timer) I don't want to have to have a credit card account and make runs to the post office. It is worth it to me to have someone do the footwork for me. I did have some test prints made before going live and I am happy with their work.