Timely advice needed: charity event (with more detail)

[Erik Anderson]

As a branch from this original thread (http://community.automotivephoto.net/forums/showthread.php?t=140) here's an update and additional questions on how best to handle the matters at hand while maintaining the business relationship.

Summary:
I've been tapped to be the Official Image Provider of a local rally for charity. The organizer of the charity event also owns/publishes the magazine & website of the rally for which I'm providing images to. It was agreed, in general, I'd cover the event on spec, had the right to sell images from the event, and would provide images for publication in the magazine and website. In return, I'd get full access, rides with RallyMasters to get shots, a mention in the article, photo credit (whoo-pee, I know), and an email sent out on my behalf to all the corporate sponsors and participants letting them know that I'm available to provide images during this event (both before the event and after the event is done). This event is this weekend (Oct 13-14)

The unresolved issues.
1) The exact details of what/when/how (length of mention, number of photos to be provided, usage of photos, etc) were not ever there and my countless attempts via email and voice to specify everything have been as successful as nailing Jell-O to a tree. Between either his secretary or him failing to confirm dates and times of meetings, or lack of him sending any type of contract, we've gotten no where on this.

2) His end of promoting me prior to the event has not been held up. The email which I sent him 2 weeks ago still hasn't gone out and we're 30 hours away from the 1st big kick off event.


Right now, I feel I'm started to get screwed. I'm doing everything that I can to make sure all my ducks are in a row but I feel they're all askew. I feel like we headed down a path where after the event I provide him my interpretation of our agreement (editorial use of 40-50 images for a single issue of the magazine, etc) and he comes back with wanting everything, hi res, for any purpose he see's fit. Bottom line, I don't want to end up getting screwed on this. He's talked about standard photographers agreements, contracts, etc, but I haven't seen anything. At this point, I'm tempted to send out an email tomorrow afternoon outlining terms and conditions as I see it if I can't get an answer from him. Just as a CYA.

This rally provides me access to a large group of people who have race teams, business, or are otherwise portential clientle. Even though I feel strung along and jacked around, I can't tell this organizer to piss off simply for the fact that it could be not only a potential money maker now, but get my name out in a city where I'm fairly new. I've had numerous people whom I've had contact with ask me if I'll be taking photo, which is not only an ego biscuit that people are thinking of me to provide their images. I don't count money before the check clears, but its nice to know the potential to do well is dangling out there if I pull this off right.

This post was much longer than I intended. If I had to boil it down to one question, it would be something like 'How do I make this a successful event by leaving with a business ally and not get screwed in the process?'

[Mike Ditz]

As "Official Image Provider" tou are entitled to both a sash and a tiara, but many events only will award you with the sash...cheapskates.

Anyhoo, it looks like you are pretty much aware that like many charities these guys figure you will give them everything for 'the cause' whether you believe in the the cause is up to you. You just don't don't want to get screwed too badly, or at least have them buy you dinner afterwards.
So you aren't going to get paid from the organizer, but they will have access to everything you shoot. You may be able to sell some pics to somebody. But if thye care about photos, many of the 'big' sponsors will have a photographer of their own, whether it's a hired photog or Billy from the mailroom, they will have someone to cover their signage or car and their people whooping it up.
As far as your unresolved issues, you need to get a schedule of events and plan your day around what is happening with the assumption that you are covering the event for the promoter for free.
There is no such thing as "standard photographer's agreement". Send him an outline of what you think the job shoud be and ask him to send back any additions that he might think of. If he doesn't respond go with your interpretation.
Bring a lot of biz cards to hand out to the raceteams and businesesses (which you could also do just as a guy going to the rally, but having the sash gives you an air of authority) Get their names and use it as networking opportunity. Give him 50 pics and hope that he's happy. Move on to the next one.

[Erik Anderson]

As "Official Image Provider" tou are entitled to both a sash and a tiara, but many events only will award you with the sash...cheapskates.

And I only negotiated the sash. I knew I'd left something on the table.! :rolleyes:


Anyhoo, it looks like you are pretty much aware that like many charities these guys figure you will give them everything for 'the cause' whether you believe in the the cause is up to you. You just don't don't want to get screwed too badly, or at least have them buy you dinner afterwards.


The images aren't going to the charity, it's going to the magazine to write an article about the event and the charity and....yes... you guessed it, to sell more magazines.


So you aren't going to get paid from the organizer, but they will have access to everything you shoot. You may be able to sell some pics to somebody. But if thye care about photos, many of the 'big' sponsors will have a photographer of their own, whether it's a hired photog or Billy from the mailroom, they will have someone to cover their signage or car and their people whooping it up.


Nope, not paid directly since they have a staff of photographers. I began negotiating a rate for the event (party on Friday, car show and rally on Saturday, plus a concert on Saturday night) but he flat out said that he'd rather have his own photogs out there for free than pay me my day rate. Due to the promised advertising and exposure , I opted to not be the new kid that rocked the boat and go with it. I'm not unfamilar with shooting on spec or what it takes to get people to purchase images.

As this point, I think you are correct. The big boys will have photogs there and I might just be SOL. So much for trying to get this stuff sorted out 90 days ago. :rolleyes: I may go through the sponsor list, and see if I can't get some quick hits tomorrow. It's late timing, but I might be able to pick up a few commisionings.


As far as your unresolved issues, you need to get a schedule of events and plan your day around what is happening with the assumption that you are covering the event for the promoter for free.
There is no such thing as "standard photographer's agreement". Send him an outline of what you think the job shoud be and ask him to send back any additions that he might think of. If he doesn't respond go with your interpretation.


I've got the schedule and locations of events. I have a friend of mine who will be covering the event with me for a pitance but I promised him a percentage of any sales. My experience is that sales after the fact are not much, especially if I'm not get the media promotion I was promised. When I mentioned the standard agreement I was refering to the magazine's standard freelancer agreement that he's mentioned several times (but never provided).

I'll wait until tomorrow morning and if I STILL don't have the documents that he promised, I'll fire off the copy of my interpretation.


Bring a lot of biz cards to hand out to the raceteams and businesesses (which you could also do just as a guy going to the rally, but having the sash gives you an air of authority) Get their names and use it as networking opportunity. Give him 50 pics and hope that he's happy. Move on to the next one.

Absolutely! I'll make sure I have plenty of business cards and a clean sash. :) I'll try to grab as many names, phone numbers, email address, and other contact info so that I can take control of the marketing situtation rather than leave it up to someone who is obviously so disinterested.

I feel a bit more comfortable that you have suggested the path I intended on taking. I appreciate the quick response, Mike.

P.S. I'll be sure and post photos of me and my sash after the event! :eek:

[Todd Corzett]

Making sure to CYA is a good thing. You really need to talk with them before the event (not just to see what type of shots they way) about what they expect from you. I think you have a good idea of being proactive and contacting them with your terms/agreement, and if they want something different they need to get back to you.

As for money… well, it seems like the advertising stuff pre-event may not work-out as you planned. So, what are you going to do about it? If you plan on profiting from the gig you are going to have to do the work (as it’s clear that the organizers aren’t).

First suggestion… be your own advertiser as much as possible. It may be hard to swing it so close to the event, but setup a little page on your website for the event. Print out business cards with the link (keep it simple too) they can follow. Then, at the event, hand the cards to EVERYONE you see… have a stack at the snack-shack… etc. Let people know about who you are and what you are doing. If you take a photo of a group of people… pass-out some cards to them. You take photos of people in the garage… pass-out some cards to them. If you have a photo of them, they should have a card from you. How will this translate into sales… I have no clue (I don’t do event stuff at all), but IMO it can’t hurt! Also go after sponsors and stuff, but don’t forget that volume can pay-off as well.

Ok, since this is for a charity… you have one lovely thing you can do… write it off! If you give them some images, then you can write-off their value (which should be reasonable, but isn’t necessarily what someone would have paid for them). Same deal with other things. Donate your time (like you are), but write it off at your day rate plus expenses. If the magazine doesn’t want to pay (which sucks), then give the photos to the charity (with limited usage – basically just that one magazine) and write-off the value. It’s not the same as money in your pocket, but it’s better than nothing. (note: I’m not a tax or financial attorney... so all things should be discussed with a qualified individual)

-Todd...

[Erik Anderson]

Making sure to CYA is a good thing. You really need to talk with them before the event (not just to see what type of shots they way) about what they expect from you. I think you have a good idea of being proactive and contacting them with your terms/agreement, and if they want something different they need to get back to you.


Trust me, :) I've been trying. I've dealt with people like him before. They won't answer and email with any completeness. I listed several items that I needed to know, clarify, or otherwise discuss and he answered 2 or 3 of the 7 or 8. Now it's crunch time and it's somehow (in his mind) my fault. I'll be making out my T&Cs and mailing it to him tomorrow.


As for money… well, it seems like the advertising stuff pre-event may not work-out as you planned. So, what are you going to do about it? If you plan on profiting from the gig you are going to have to do the work (as it’s clear that the organizers aren’t).


IF they put my advertisement in the gift bags as they indicated, every participant will have a 5x7 glossy advert that has my website and about 8 photos that I've done (about 1x1.5") along with the 'official image provider' text above the event logo. Assuming they did that (which I hope they DID since I spent a fair sum making several hundred of them), then any cards that we pass our during the event will just reinforce what they'll be getting in their gift bag.

I will profit by selling to the individuals, sponsors, and companies running. It will be heavily one on one selling between photos, posting on the event board afterwards, and the abovementioned gladhanding, business cards, and gift bank insert in hopes of getting sales after the event. I'm hopeful enough to cover expenses, but at the rate things are going, not much else.


First suggestion… be your own advertiser as much as possible. It may be hard to swing it so close to the event, but setup a little page on your website for the event. Print out business cards with the link (keep it simple too) they can follow. Then, at the event, hand the cards to EVERYONE you see… have a stack at the snack-shack… etc. Let people know about who you are and what you are doing. If you take a photo of a group of people… pass-out some cards to them. You take photos of people in the garage… pass-out some cards to them. If you have a photo of them, they should have a card from you. How will this translate into sales… I have no clue (I don’t do event stuff at all), but IMO it can’t hurt! Also go after sponsors and stuff, but don’t forget that volume can pay-off as well.


I'l be doing exactly as you'd suggested (just picked up another 400 cards tonight, in fact!) In my experience, event sales are best made AT the event. After event sales, well, the excitement is gone and online sales will rarely equal or exceed onsite sales.



Ok, since this is for a charity… you have one lovely thing you can do… write it off! If you give them some images, then you can write-off their value (which should be reasonable, but isn’t necessarily what someone would have paid for them). Same deal with other things. Donate your time (like you are), but write it off at your day rate plus expenses. If the magazine doesn’t want to pay (which sucks), then give the photos to the charity (with limited usage – basically just that one magazine) and write-off the value. It’s not the same as money in your pocket, but it’s better than nothing. (note: I’m not a tax or financial attorney... so all things should be discussed with a qualified individual)


Nail on head. I'm documenting everything for this (phone calls, mileage, time, etc) and will be deducting it just like a commercial shoot. I did something similar last year and haven't heard from the IRS (knock on wood) ;).

Great advice, Todd, thanks for posting. I'll let everyone know how it ends up. It certainly isn't how I envisioned it going down, but we'll see if I can't make some lemonade out of this situation.

[Mike Ditz]

Whoa...slow down there fellers! :eek:

The way it was explained to me is that you cannot deduct your "fee"(unless possibly if you are staff photographer), you can deduct expenses that you incurred on tangible items (film prints, mileage). Or you can charge them a fee, they pay you and then you donate it (or part of it back to them) . You can waive your fee but not deduct it from your taxes.
Just because you didn't hear from the IRS doesn't mean you won't. Check with your accountant or tax guy.

[Todd Corzett]

The way it was explained to me is that you cannot deduct your "fee"(unless possibly if you are staff photographer), you can deduct expenses that you incurred on tangible items (film prints, mileage). Or you can charge them a fee, they pay you and then you donate it (or part of it back to them) . You can waive your fee but not deduct it from your taxes.
I don't have experience with it (I have a tax guy just incase though). As I see it, "fee" can be itemized in a million different ways... rather than a day-rate, you can donate a dozen images ($3.99 to print, but are valued at $60) and write-off the full-value of the print. The charity wants images for a flyer... free to you... but worth $$$, so it can be written-off. And like you said... you can charge a fee, have them "pay it", then donate it back (or in one step... just donate the fee). You really have to work it out with the charity/event... but, as the "official photographer" I think it would be within limits.

Just because you didn't hear from the IRS doesn't mean you won't. Check with your accountant or tax guy.
YES! You also should work it out with a tax expert, but it does open-up options.

-Todd...

[Mike Ditz]

I don't have experience with it (I have a tax guy just incase though). As I see it, "fee" can be itemized in a million different ways... rather than a day-rate, you can donate a dozen images ($3.99 to print, but are valued at $60) and write-off the full-value of the print. The charity wants images for a flyer... free to you... but worth $$$, so it can be written-off. And like you said... you can charge a fee, have them "pay it", then donate it back (or in one step... just donate the fee). You really have to work it out with the charity/event... but, as the "official photographer" I think it would be within limits.


YES! You also should work it out with a tax expert, but it does open-up options.

-Todd...

Other than the sash 'Official Photographer" means nothing.
You have to be pretty clever to outsmart the IRS. They have been at it longer, have seen it all before and they make the rules. And unlike "innocent until proven guilty" most of the burden of proof is on the taxpayer as he is supplying the information (1040 - Schd C) valid or not. There have been rulings every way you could imagine so you cann't predict which way anything would go. Also your advice will be different if you ask the IRS and 5 different tax experts. there was one ruling were an artist (as the creator) could only deduct the true value of the painting he donated (canvas, paint, frame) not the selling price ($5k). So the $3.99 prints are valued at $3.99
If you are donating the fee, I think you have to actually donate the fee (cash check or credit card) not just say "I am donating the fee" If you give them an invoice, they mark it paid (without paying you) and y'all call it a donation you are still on thin ice because there is no paper trail (cancelled check for example). Chances are you won't be audited, but if the charity is audited you might on the list for an up close and personal visit from the IRS.

That's why it's good to donate to charities that you believe in so you can simply donate, not try to do some 3 card monty with you the IRS and the charity...

[Todd Corzett]

You have to be pretty clever to outsmart the IRS...
I'm not trying to suggest outsmarting the IRS in any way at all. I'm only suggesting to take advantage of all the opportunities that are available to you. And depending on how you do things, you may or may not be able to take advantage of all the deductions.

I would consider a print to be "property", and therefore fall under Pub561 (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p561.pdf). The Fair Market Value (or the price that property would sell for on the open market) would be the value of the property and what it should be written-off as. There is some information about art, but if it's under $5k you don't need an appraisal. Now, I'm not saying that you should take a $3.99 print and write it off for $5k or something... but at its fair market value ($60 for a 12x18 is fair). But you can't just say you donated $$$, you need a receipt from the charity (if over $250).

However, I do believe you are correct about the time/services stuff... Pub526 (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p526.pdf) states that you can't donate your time or personal expenses (the expenses however can be taken-out of the business, but that's a different subject).

Before doing anything along these lines, definitely talk with a qualified tax person... they can tell you, MUCH better than I, what is possible.

-Todd...

[Mike Ditz]

The more I can stay below the IRS's radar...the better.

[Erik Anderson]

The more I can stay below the IRS's radar...the better.

I agree with this :) I'm busy enough now that I'm hiring a CPA. The taxes have been fairly straight forward but I think a professional opinion on how to minimize my taxable income and maximize my deductions is in order at this point.

Followup to the event:
I printed up cards with my web address and the specific address of where people can find their photos. We handed them out like a crack dealer trying to establish a new block and went through 3-400 of them. We gave them to people in person, put them on the side windows of cars we took photos of, etc. My inserts did get put into the bags, so all 177 cars got a 5x7 glossy print with photos of various events that I've done.

The concours was the best part. Everything from Daytona Coupe Replicas, 190 MBs, new GT40s, Ferrari 430s, McLaren SLR, muscle Camaros, Porsches, D-type Jags, and even a Hummer rolling on 30" wheels. That was the most relaxed and fun part of the rally.

The driving part of the rally had four courses (two distinct routes, CW and CCW for each) It would have been logistically impossible to get all cars on both routes with just the two of us, so we opted to shoot everyone near where the routes merged onto a major highway. I would have MUCH prefered to stake out some scenic hills and curves, but without four photographers who were in place before the rally started, there was no way to get shots of everyone. Add to the fact that the time difference between the first and last car was up to three hours, and it makes for a long wait. I did get to pan handheld wth the 300 f2.8 and try to make the most of a rather crappy location.

We'll see if the marketing works. I went into this with the understanding it was a first time event and it's mostly a learning experience and a vehicle to get my name out.