Another blatant copyright violation.

[David Birkbeck]

This guy is hardly ignorant of the copyright laws and ethics as two of his friends are photographers, one of which posts here on this board. The site in question is his own, dedicated to his race prepped M6. Check it out here : http://www.brannfors.com/redsharkracing/
The problem is that he never asked to use these images (mine are the thumbnails with the watermarks) or gave a thank you. He just downloaded them from my web site and stuck them on his server. He did however place a link to my site on his front page. The larger fuzzy pic in the center of the page was downloaded and resized from a friend of mine web site without permission. She has e-mailed him and ask that it be taken down but she never got a responce. The car is featured in this months BMWCCA magazine, the Roundel, so I'm thinking the big head syndrome is at work here.
What are your thoughts on this kind behavior coming from the very people we help promote. Do they realize that it is a two way street?
Thanks
David

[Mike Ditz]

Never underestimate the knowledge of non-photographers when it comes to copyright. He probably doesn't know that you are not spozed to do what he did, even if he does say that the pics are property of D Birkbeck.

I'm not sure what you mean by a two way street...:confused:

M

[Daniel Buck]

well, at least he put a link to your website. I don't know if that has any effect on copyright stuff or not, but it's not like he's claiming them as his own, he's giving you the credit.

Good luck with it :-)

[Todd Corzett]

Screw credit... I want cash! Posing a byline or a link to a webpage is not sufficient.

What is really funny, often I would never know of the people who use my photos without permission... but when they credit me (or link from my server)... I know about it.

Send them a bill... it will get their attention, if not... have a lawyer send them a letter.

-Todd...

[John Thawley]

Slow down... pick up the phone and call him.

Thank him for his interest. Ask him how he things are going. Tell him you appreciate his interest in your work and you're happy he finds it valuable to post on his site. THEN.... explain to him that as much as you appreciate all those "other" things, you would like to be compensated for your work. Tell him...

"this is what I do for a living. And, while I'm appreciative that you see a value in having my images on your site, I need to be compensated. I appreciate the link... but that does not pay for my time, travel, equipment or other business expenses. I'd like to see you continue to use my images... and I'd happily give you a reduced rate in exchange for the link, but in fairness... this is my occupation and I need to be paid."

I've had these same challenges and used the opening to turn them into opportunities and valued customers.

Don't start pissing on the situation before you've tried a reasonable compromise.

JT

[Daniel Buck]

Screw credit... I want cash! Posing a byline or a link to a webpage is not sufficient.

I'm not saying it right :D They may be under the impression that if they have a link to the photographers site, it's all good. They just need to be talked with, and I agree with John, do it as nicely as possible. I wouldn't just send a bill and demand payment though, at least not before talking with them. If I received a bill out of nowhere with a demand for payment on something I didn't realize needed payment, I'd just toss it out.

[Todd Corzett]

Sorry if it sounded like you should just send a bill out of no where... it seemed to me that attempts were made to contact the individual, without any response. I agree 100% with JT about going positive, explaining copyright, then discussing rates... rather than just going in with bills and lawyers. I have had mixed reaction from even the positive approach... several people became good customers, other just removed the images (without paying anything for what they used), and some fought tooth-and-nail to keep photos online without paying.

Go into it with a positive attitude... but, also know what you need out of the situation... remember, they are violating your rights, and should pay accordingly... if you were selling photos of them to the public without their permission I'm sure they would be less than happy with the situation.

-Todd...

[Steve Alvine]

David,
I know Erik personally and I can assure you he will work w/ you w/ your concerns. He has always asked or paid when needed for use of images. Just give him the explanation like above and he will be happy to comply.
Steve

[Curtis Creager]

Hi david

Did you or he ever talk about having you shot for him? Did he come to you before, during or after an event to see your work?
I've had a similar experience with a group from Canada & Portland a few years back and neither group ever paid up…ah the good ole days of film.
I have a pretty basic philosophy; I won’t shot it, if I haven’t been paid a few upfront.

Anything I send to someone now is low-res and has a water mark…..unless I can hand deliver my work.

Good luck with payment!!

[John Thawley]

I have a pretty basic philosophy; I won’t shot it, if I haven’t been paid a few upfront.


I'm not sure you can employ that philosophy... I'd have given up nearly $7000 had I employed that philosophy at the last race.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. We're in business and have to operate with a certain amount of good faith. Along the way, we come across people who may be a bit less than ethical... or make a mistake. I had a 1/2 page ad show up in USA Today yesterday. One phone call produced a slew of apologies and an internal discussion (within the agency) regarding flow of information. No noe was trying to cheat me... there was simply a lack of communication.

Work with clients, communicate... build your client base and grow.

JT

[Curtis Creager]

My reply to his dilemma was pretty late in the evening so I may have come a across a little cynical, my apologizes.

I’ve come a long way since then and have made some great relationships along the way with people I didn’t think would ever materialize in to anything. Because of my desire to make this happen I have had the honor to view and drive some of the most exotic machines we know of today. I am an honest hard working person behind the camera and for that I get repaid with honesty and respect…and little cash too.

You are right that we need to have good faith, but on the other hand you also need to look out for your best interest as a photographer. Nothing teaches you that more than experience.


C

P.S. I meant to say fee not few.

[David Birkbeck]

Thanks you guys for all the imput. I e-mailed Erik a few days ago explaining my thoughts on the matter. I was to the point but not rude. I told him that what he did was not generally the normal way to conduct business with a photographer and that we need to be compensated for any and all usage regardless of credits and links. I also offered to work out some sort of agreement, but no. I guess it can be difficult sometimes to get your point across in an e-mail without sounding like some sort of a grouch. I should have called like John suggested as the reply e-mail was a short and sweet one...a "cya" if you will. My images were removed that same day, yet he still has that image on his site that belongs to a friend of mine, without a credit no less. I would be more than happy to help out these non profit, non pro racers with images for their web sites. All they need to do is ask. That was the bottom line in this matter. Just ask.