editors giving away my imags to car owners

[Jerry Heasley]

I recently watched one of my editors give away all the photos on a CD that I took of an owner's car that appeared in this certain editor's magazine. We had all met for dinner. The car owner paid for dinner. It made me feel like I paid for dinner. Often, owners buy pictures from me. I was shocked, but kept my mouth shut, not wanting to ruin the evening . I was not my usual jovial self, however. The car owner already had the photos in his hands and he was smiling bigger than a chesire cat.

The magazine owns first time rights. Editors who are not photographers are frequently either dumb or selectively ignorant on copyright issues. The original images in the hands of a third party opens up all kinds of possibilities.

To my understanding of copyright, publishers are buying first time rights only unless otherwise specified.

I plan to bring up this issue with the editor.

[John Thawley]

It's very simple.... License to use and rights are NON-TRANSFERABLE!!!! End of story.

You need to nip this in the bud in a big way. This is not an all you can eat buffet... and oh, by the way... bring your family. The editor pays for his use rights... now some one needs to pay for what the owner got. That's just wrong.

JT

[Jim Sykes]

Unless you were under a work for hire contract, you own your rights to sell. If he did not pay for transferable rights, then you have the right to call him out on it.

However, if that wasnt specified in the agreement, it gets sticky. Or if you were shooting under a work for hire agreement, then he has the right to do whatever he wants with them as they are actually HIS photos.

Try to talk to him and get this cleared up and in the future, make sure you have it cleared up before you go shooting.

[Mike Ditz]

Chances are it is not a WFH agreement as that is something that has to be specifically stated (or hidden in the fine print on the back of of the PO). Most publications are used to limited rights when it comes to photography. They might not understand the aftermarket of selling to the owners of the cars.
To me it sounds like y'all were having dinner and the genrous editor wanted to be a nice guy and gave away something that he really shouldn't have, as it wasn't his to give.
Too late now but instead of sitting there, you could have tactfully brought up the facts of life, but then the editor would have looked like an idiot in front of the owner.
Maybe you can use the editor's guilty feelings (if he has any) to leverage more work in the future if you want to continue working for him.

M

[E. John Thawley III]

Wow. I would never have been able too keep my mouth shut.

Was it a new editor? Or one you had not worked with before? I cannot imagine any of my editors doing that without asking me first.

Amazing.

[Jacob Leveton]

you DEFINATELY need to approach the editor. My first words would be "WHAT... THE... ****.." but you may want to be more professional than that ;). First, ask what the agreement was between them and the car owner(get this FIRST, IMO). Then ask what the agreement was between you and the editor. Then, depending on the answers, work from there.

If he DOES feel like he owns the rights, then I hope you got paid accordingly. It's one thing not to double-dip on a shoot from your end and sell the photos to another magazine / the sponsor / etc (especially an assigned feature shoot), but it's another to have the editor double-dip on the photos (magazine + whatever else). It's a 2 way street. Ask the editor if you're allowed to sell the shoot to another magazine without notifying them. Ask them if they would approve of you selling the images to the owner behind the editors back.

And finally, if these answers don't meet your expectations, then walk (run) away. Know when you're getting screwed, and when to cut your losses.

[John Jovic]

Some editors just don't know any better. Start by talking to him/her about it and make sure they know it's not OK by you. If they're not OK with that then I suggest you don't deal with them in the future.

JJ

[John Thawley]

My first words would be "WHAT... THE... ****.." but you may want to be more professional than that ;).


As may you.

Please refrain from using profanity on the boards.

Thanks,

JT

[Jacob Leveton]

sorry daddy thawley. :(

[Jerry Heasley]

Not a new editor, but fairly new. I asked him not to hand out my photos and he agreed. First, he said then he'd maybe only give them 3 or 4 pictures. I said no. I am wondering how many photos he has handed out, but did not ask.