what to charge as a new photographer

[Joel Parker]

I haven't really been shooting for very long and most of my car shots have been taken at car shows and other gatherings. However I'm getting to a point where some people are asking me how much I would charge them for me to take some photos of their car. Most of the time these images would be delivered digitally, with prints and full size copies costing more.

I'm looking for some pointers on what sort of range might be good to charge.. or where I should start looking for information on this sort of thing.

A couple of the photos I've taken in an actual photo shoot environment so far:
http://www.fakelag.net/gallery/d/2784-2/DSC_2079.jpg

http://www.shellfront.org/rootrider/gallery/ben_20050905/PICT4889_001.sized.jpg

http://www.fakelag.net/gallery/d/7142-2/DSC_1708.jpg

[Jacob Leveton]

let me help you compare:

use model headshots as a starting point.

Models can go to glamour shots at the mall and get shots done for $50 or $60. This usually includes 2-3 prints, other prints are more expensive. Headshot photographers will often charge 200-$250, with 3-5 prints included.

I've seen 'starting' photographers start off shooting free headshots. WHY?! If they approach you for headshots, that means that they don't want the $50 headshots from glamour shots. They like your work better. At the very very least, you should be charging that much. But look at what glamourshots offers - generic backdrops, generic poses, etc. If you put ANY effort into planning your shoot and using different poses, backdrops, and wardrobes, you should charge more than glamour shots. even at $100, you'd be surprised at how many people will line up out the door to take shots with you. IF they don't, feel free to give them a phone book with the page for 'glamour shots' dog eared. Many of these people will come back to you in 1-2 months asking if they can book an appointment with you.

Now why should cars be any different? sure there's no glamour shots, but that's because it's much harder to stick a car studio in a mall.

I'd suggest starting around $75 - $100. Shoot 1-2 locations, 50-75 shots, anticipating 3-5 that are 'great'. Give them prints of those shots (total cost $5 if you use costco for prints, $10 - $15 if you use a better print lab, + your gas).

Keep in mind that standard pay for most import magazines is around $250 - $600 for just the photos. I'm all for giving your homies a discount because they aren't corporate giants, but don't underestimate your own abilities.

[Joel Parker]

good reply..

And I agree. That's kind of why I asked the question here. I wanted a relatively balanced answer that can point me in the right direction. Thanks :)

[John Thawley]

One tip.... IF.... and I do mean IF you plan to break into a group by using promotional pricing, be selective. Only make that offer to the best car you know. Don't shoot just anybody at a deal. The best car will look the best in your finsihed shots. And, when others see you've "worked with the best," your stock goes up. But, use only top notch cars to build your resume. Don't give your work away without knowing there's added value coming back to you.

If you give just anyoe a great price, when his friends see and like the pictures, guess what they're going to hear... "oh yeah, call this guy, he'll give you a good deal." That's not the reference you want. You want "call this guy.. he works with the best."

[Ryan Smith]

One tip.... IF.... and I do mean IF you plan to break into a group by using promotional pricing, be selective. Only make that offer to the best car you know. Don't shoot just anybody at a deal. The best car will look the best in your finsihed shots. And, when others see you've "worked with the best," your stock goes up. But, use only top notch cars to build your resume. Don't give your work away without knowing there's added value coming back to you.

If you give just anyoe a great price, when his friends see and like the pictures, guess what they're going to hear... "oh yeah, call this guy, he'll give you a good deal." That's not the reference you want. You want "call this guy.. he works with the best."

Now that is great knowledge to know.

[Austin Langley]

Now that is great knowledge to know.
I agree. This makes perfect sense yet it was something I had never thought about. Good food for thought.

[Chris Clark]

If you give just anyoe a great price, when his friends see and like the pictures, guess what they're going to hear... "oh yeah, call this guy, he'll give you a good deal." That's not the reference you want. You want "call this guy.. he works with the best."


I just wanted to elaborate on a little bit of what John mentioned:

About 5 years ago i was a manager at a popular retail clothing chain. The store I worked at was the "flagship" store, located in the same city as the Home Offices. Naturally the President, VP, Regional Mgrs., and assorted corporate types were ALWAYS at our store. They used to talk about "Building The Brand" quite alot. And what I mean by this is, while we sold clothes, people really shopped there for the "name" that was on the clothes. The Brand.

To put this in your situation: Your Name is Your Brand.

Do you want to be known as the Ferrari of your chosen field, or as the Yugo? As the guy who works with the best, or the guy who does work for cheap. Do what you need to do, but don't forget you are building your "brand" in the process.

Does that make much sense? :)

[Daniel Buck]

I have been asking $300 for a shoot, which includes the shoot and the processing of the best images. Web-size digital files (640px wide), and 1200px wide digital files sufficient for them to print their own 4x6's and even "ok" 8x10's. They get those digital files for the best 3-4 beauty shots. Any aditional prints I charge them only what it costs me to print (I use mpix.com) and they know the quality will be better, because I'm printing from the original 5000px wide images. I give them digital files because thats what most of them want, something to post on the internet and show others, or to send to family members/friends via emails, they could care less about a print. A few want something that can be printed (or I print for them) so that they can post pictures of their car next to their car at car shows.

So far, I have had over 15 people ask me how much I charge for a shoot, and every single one of them backed down as soon as I quoted them $300. And they know the quality of my pictures, and they know how much work I put into them. Surely I'm not asking to much? I'm in LA, you can't even park for 1 month for $300! I tell them exactly what they get and what I'll do for the $300, even though none of them have come out and said that $300 sounds like to much, I get the feeling thats why they don't get back to me, even though they were the one who initially contacted me.

I suppose I just need to do better marketing, but I'm not sure I want to do all that, this is a hobby for me. I figured if I could get a little cash from a few shoots to balance out what I have paid for some of my equipment, that would be good. But not if I have to go and do all the business part of things, then it becomes another job.

[Erik Anderson]

I have been asking $300 for a shoot, which includes the shoot and the processing of the best images. Web-size digital files (640px wide), and 1200px wide digital files sufficient for them to print their own 4x6's and even "ok" 8x10's. They get those digital files for the best 3-4 beauty shots. Any aditional prints I charge them only what it costs me to print (I use mpix.com) and they know the quality will be better, because I'm printing from the original 5000px wide images. I give them digital files because thats what most of them want, something to post on the internet and show others, or to send to family members/friends via emails, they could care less about a print. A few want something that can be printed (or I print for them) so that they can post pictures of their car next to their car at car shows.

So far, I have had over 15 people ask me how much I charge for a shoot, and every single one of them backed down as soon as I quoted them $300. And they know the quality of my pictures, and they know how much work I put into them. Surely I'm not asking to much? I'm in LA, you can't even park for 1 month for $300! I tell them exactly what they get and what I'll do for the $300, even though none of them have come out and said that $300 sounds like to much, I get the feeling thats why they don't get back to me, even though they were the one who initially contacted me.

I suppose I just need to do better marketing, but I'm not sure I want to do all that, this is a hobby for me. I figured if I could get a little cash from a few shoots to balance out what I have paid for some of my equipment, that would be good. But not if I have to go and do all the business part of things, then it becomes another job.

Who's calling you? The professional who just has his 59 Aston Martin restored, the 20-something who just got his/her first new car out of college, or the blue collar guy who's been scraping together his rat rod over the years? Something in between?

You may think about breaking it down to X flat rate to shoot for Y hours. They get a web gallery (watermarked across the center) to preview and chose which images they want for prints or further editing. I spend a few mnutes doing some basic PS to a couple images, then really work one or two over just to show then what to expect from images, but otherwise, the images are largely unedited. Upon completion of a print order, they can they get Z number of images in 1024x768 @ 72dpi for personal web usage and digital wallpapers as a 'freebie'.

I'm not a fan of 'packages' and leave everything a la carte (and price accordingly) for the customer to chose. My average per 2 hour photoshoot (plus another 2 hours or so in post) is about what you are talking about, but I rarely end up giving them more products than what you've mentioned.



YMMV!

[Todd Corzett]

not a fan of 'packages' and leave everything a la carte (and price accordingly) for the customer to chose.
I agree with this (for almost all forms of billing). It is very hard to change someone's first impression of "that is too much to pay". You often have to play damage control trying to explain all the stuff they get... and in the end they don't get over the initial reaction. Rather than giving a $300 number (which for what you are providing is a steal, IMO)... you can break it down into smaller, more manageable, bites.

Shooting fee (per location): $xx per hour (Y hour minimum per location)
Processing fee: $xx per hour (Y hour minimum) - or per image - (toss in the final low-res image for "free")
Low-resolution digital images (limited usage): $xx each, or $xxx for all
Prints: $xx each

People can say, ok... I want two locations so that's going to be $200, then I want digital images that I can email (but not all of them) so that's $50, and I'd like a few medium resolution image for a screensaver for $50... The total will still be $300, but the client knows what they are getting right off the bat, rather than being hit in the face with a larger number than they wanted.

Then, after you break-down all the a la carte prices you can have the "two location digital bundle" where you package everything together... maybe it's all the low-res photos on CD rather than just a few for $300. The client sees they are getting a "deal" because of the package... and leave happier than being told "for $300 you get a few shots on a CD".

-Todd...

[Jeremy Hua]

I just wanted to elaborate on a little bit of what John mentioned:

About 5 years ago i was a manager at a popular retail clothing chain. The store I worked at was the "flagship" store, located in the same city as the Home Offices. Naturally the President, VP, Regional Mgrs., and assorted corporate types were ALWAYS at our store. They used to talk about "Building The Brand" quite alot. And what I mean by this is, while we sold clothes, people really shopped there for the "name" that was on the clothes. The Brand.

To put this in your situation: Your Name is Your Brand.

Do you want to be known as the Ferrari of your chosen field, or as the Yugo? As the guy who works with the best, or the guy who does work for cheap. Do what you need to do, but don't forget you are building your "brand" in the process.

Does that make much sense? :)
A&F Home Office?

[Daniel Buck]

Who's calling you? The professional who just has his 59 Aston Martin restored, the 20-something who just got his/her first new car out of college, or the blue collar guy who's been scraping together his rat rod over the years? Something in between? I'd say mostly folks in their mid 20's. I wouldn't say they dont' have any money, as alot of them have dumped thousands and thousands of dollars into their cars, plus the car itself. I guess the clubs that I frequent are mostly younger folks, maybe I should look out for the older folks who might appreciate a good photo more. I'm not really always on the look out for shooting gigs, because thats not what I like about shooting, I don't really like shooting for other folks, and I don't like business part of things. People in the car clubs just ask me for a shoot, and I quote them.


I agree with this (for almost all forms of billing). It is very hard to change someone's first impression of "that is too much to pay". You often have to play damage control trying to explain all the stuff they get... and in the end they don't get over the initial reaction. Rather than giving a $300 number (which for what you are providing is a steal, IMO)... you can break it down into smaller, more manageable, bites.

Shooting fee (per location): $xx per hour (Y hour minimum per location)
Processing fee: $xx per hour (Y hour minimum) - or per image - (toss in the final low-res image for "free")
Low-resolution digital images (limited usage): $xx each, or $xxx for all
Prints: $xx each

People can say, ok... I want two locations so that's going to be $200, then I want digital images that I can email (but not all of them) so that's $50, and I'd like a few medium resolution image for a screensaver for $50... The total will still be $300, but the client knows what they are getting right off the bat, rather than being hit in the face with a larger number than they wanted.

Then, after you break-down all the a la carte prices you can have the "two location digital bundle" where you package everything together... maybe it's all the low-res photos on CD rather than just a few for $300. The client sees they are getting a "deal" because of the package... and leave happier than being told "for $300 you get a few shots on a CD".

-Todd...

Maybe I'll try braking it down like that next time someone asks. The thing is, I don't like having 20 images, I like to focus on just a few killer images. Maybe the artist in me just doesn't like the other aspects of photography, :(

[Erik Anderson]

I'd say mostly folks in their mid 20's. I wouldn't say they dont' have any money, as alot of them have dumped thousands and thousands of dollars into their cars, plus the car itself. I guess the clubs that I frequent are mostly younger folks, maybe I should look out for the older folks who might appreciate a good photo more. I'm not really always on the look out for shooting gigs, because thats not what I like about shooting, I don't really like shooting for other folks, and I don't like business part of things. People in the car clubs just ask me for a shoot, and I quote them.

This is the same group that thinks $4000 for a turbo kit on their Honda, $3000 for a set of wheels on their Supra, or $1500 for a set of heads on their Mustang are perfectly acceptable way to spend money. $300 on a few photos of their car is pure insanity. ;) You know your market better than I, but I've made more sales to the 40+ crowd. The 20-30-somethings usually 'have a buddy with a camera' and they think that's sufficent.

[Daniel Buck]

The 20-30-somethings usually 'have a buddy with a camera' and they think that's sufficent.

Yep, I think you are right.

But most of them by now know that my pictures are far better than "their buddy with a brand new DSLR yo!" :D haha! Well, no biggie I guess, I'll just keep quoting them when they ask, if nobody bites, then my free time is spent on me :) My free time seems to be dwindling year by year :(

[Erik Anderson]

But most of them by now know that my pictures are far better than "their buddy with a brand new DSLR yo!"

I have absolutely no doubt that your photos are better than Joe Schmoe with a DSLR. Your quality is not hard to sell, it's the justification in the mind of the owner between the 'free' shoot by his buddy or the paid shoot from you. :) Good luck!

[Chris Clark]

A&F Home Office?

yep.:)

Do you work there?

[Jacob Leveton]

This is the same group that thinks $4000 for a turbo kit on their Honda, $3000 for a set of wheels on their Supra, or $1500 for a set of heads on their Mustang are perfectly acceptable way to spend money. $300 on a few photos of their car is pure insanity. ;) You know your market better than I, but I've made more sales to the 40+ crowd. The 20-30-somethings usually 'have a buddy with a camera' and they think that's sufficent.

not anymore.

this is the crowd who's paying $500 for knockoff wheels because they can't afford the $3k real deals. And taiwan / ebay knockoff parts / junkyard turbo setups. Import owners are fawkin CHEAP for the most part.

[Joel Parker]

just a note.. the photos I originally linked to at the top of this thread aren't the same ones that are showing now. I moved my entire gallery to a new site and moved everything around, so.. images aren't in the same location any more.

I appreciate all comments on this topic! I still find it very interesting to see what approaches people have.

[John Jovic]

People in the car clubs just ask me for a shoot, and I quote them.


Try quoting 3 grand plus expenses, then you can pay for whatever you need to deliver the goods.

If they say NO, which many will, then who cares. You only care about the ones that say YES.

JJ

[Morgan J Segal]

(I was going to start a new thread but figured this fit in here)

Somebody on the Lotus board I frequent got "professional" pictures taken of his car, below find what this guy charges (I quoted it from his website)
I suppose if you are more of an amateur, and perhaps not very good, this would be appropriate pricing. These rates would not even cover my time sitting in traffic to get to the location let alone pay my bills ( I would have to do at least 30-40 shoots a month at these rates to make ends meet) :rolleyes:




Personal Auto Shoot

Price: $125
Includes: photo session (approximately 2 hours)
Location Scouting
11x17 print of your choice
10-20 web ready images (700 pixels on longest side) on CD
10-20 High Res images (3500x2300 is typical) on CD
3-5 Desktop images
3-5 Internet Avatar images
Options: Additional prints.
Car to car and action shots: $75
Model services available, prices very depending on model.


Personal Night Auto Shoot

Price: $175
Includes: Night photo session (approximately 3 hours)
Location Scouting
11x17 print of your choice
10-20 web ready images (700 pixels on longest side) on CD
10-20 High Res images (3500x2300 is typical) on CD
3-5 Desktop images
3-5 Internet Avatar images
Options: Additional prints.
Model services available, prices very depending on model.


Personal Track Event Shoot

Price: $65 plus traveling expenses to distant tracks.
Traveling expenses can be waived if more then one photoo participant.
Includes: Track photo session (half day at the track)
11x17 print of your choice
6-15 web ready images (700 pixels on longest side) on CD
6-15 High Res images (3500x2300 is typical) on CD
3-5 Desktop images
3-5 Internet Avatar images
Options: Additional prints.

[Mike Ditz]

Add a zero onto those prices and you've got something!

I make more at my part time barrista job down at the new Starbucks!

MD

[Erik Anderson]

not anymore.

this is the crowd who's paying $500 for knockoff wheels because they can't afford the $3k real deals. And taiwan / ebay knockoff parts / junkyard turbo setups. Import owners are fawkin CHEAP for the most part.

Some of the market is in that mindset, yes. The point remains that $$$ for parts is fine, but $$$ for photos for that market is just like throwing money away when you've got 'a buddy wth a camera'. If I see one more rolling shot on the local 'racing' boards I frequent, I'm going to puke.

[Erik Anderson]

(I was going to start a new thread but figured this fit in here)

Somebody on the Lotus board I frequent got "professional" pictures taken of his car, below find what this guy charges (I quoted it from his website)
I suppose if you are more of an amateur, and perhaps not very good, this would be appropriate pricing. These rates would not even cover my time sitting in traffic to get to the location let alone pay my bills ( I would have to do at least 30-40 shoots a month at these rates to make ends meet) :rolleyes:

[/I][/B]

If you are doing this for fun, or, but this guy is giving away the farm! How did he come up with 6-15 images for the CD? Why does commisioning for 'half day at the track' cost $65 while two hours for the 'personal photoshoot' cost $125. Seems like our friend is a bit confused.

[Morgan J Segal]

If you are doing this for fun, or, but this guy is giving away the farm! How did he come up with 6-15 images for the CD? Why does commisioning for 'half day at the track' cost $65 while two hours for the 'personal photoshoot' cost $125. Seems like our friend is a bit confused.

perhaps he figures he can charge half as much since he does not need to location scout:rolleyes:

[Erik Anderson]

perhaps he figures he can charge half as much since he does not need to location scout:rolleyes:


That a possibility. A remarkably short sighted possibility, but one none-the-less! :)

[Jeremy Hua]

yep.:)

Do you work there?
No, but I do have several friends that work and model there.


Sorry for going off-track. :D

[John Thawley]

(I was going to start a new thread but figured this fit in here)

Somebody on the Lotus board I frequent got "professional" pictures taken of his car, below find what this guy charges (I quoted it from his website)
I suppose if you are more of an amateur, and perhaps not very good, this would be appropriate pricing. These rates would not even cover my time sitting in traffic to get to the location let alone pay my bills ( I would have to do at least 30-40 shoots a month at these rates to make ends meet) :rolleyes:




Personal Auto Shoot

Price: $125
Includes: photo session (approximately 2 hours)
Location Scouting
11x17 print of your choice
10-20 web ready images (700 pixels on longest side) on CD
10-20 High Res images (3500x2300 is typical) on CD
3-5 Desktop images
3-5 Internet Avatar images
Options: Additional prints.
Car to car and action shots: $75
Model services available, prices very depending on model.


Personal Night Auto Shoot

Price: $175
Includes: Night photo session (approximately 3 hours)
Location Scouting
11x17 print of your choice
10-20 web ready images (700 pixels on longest side) on CD
10-20 High Res images (3500x2300 is typical) on CD
3-5 Desktop images
3-5 Internet Avatar images
Options: Additional prints.
Model services available, prices very depending on model.


Personal Track Event Shoot

Price: $65 plus traveling expenses to distant tracks.
Traveling expenses can be waived if more then one photoo participant.
Includes: Track photo session (half day at the track)
11x17 print of your choice
6-15 web ready images (700 pixels on longest side) on CD
6-15 High Res images (3500x2300 is typical) on CD
3-5 Desktop images
3-5 Internet Avatar images
Options: Additional prints.


OMG! :eek: :eek: :eek: