Corporate Image Usage: Discounting Multiple Images

[Erik Anderson]

I'm quoting an advertising job for a international marketing firm to produce images for a leave-behind brochure that, per their estimates, would contain 40-50 images. I'm comfortable with my day rate and the licensing fee estimated by Fotoquote (and compared against the available online calcs).

The question is the depth of discount offered to a corporation based on quantity of images. Does anyone have some insight as to the discount that should (if any) be offered on this quantity? 10%? 20%? 40%? What factors do you use to adjust this number? Firm size? Likelyhood of future business? Thanks!

[Todd Corzett]

First, know how many images... and which images... before going into a negotiation if possible. Also, make sure you cover yourself if they want fewer images (or get the numbers they want in writing). Basically, don't drop the per-image cost because of the volume (as they will expect to get that price if they decide they only want a few images rather than all 50). Charge your rate for the images, then back-off a volume discount (if applicable) in a second line-item.

The only time that I offer volume discounts is when it promotes them to buy more images at that time (or to put it in a written contract). Most of the time is has to do with their budgets being lower than required for the per image costs. So if someone could afford 5 images at $50 each with their budget of $250, but if they wanted 10 images (worth $500) I'd do a 'volume discount' of $100-off if they bought all 10... basically, they get the images they want... and I get more money than I would have if they just went with their original budget. The key is to never drop below your bottom-line.

Personally, if they want 50 images, and have the budget for all 50 images, then no discounts... but if they don't have the budget (they never seem to) work it so that you get something out of it. In the end, the per-image numbers need to meet your approval... if not, then they are taking advantage of you (and using the volume as an excuse to do it).

-Todd...

[Mike Ditz]

Why?
I'm trying to think any vendor who gives me a discount and the only one I can comeup with if I do a bunch of multiple prints then I get a price break for 20 or m more of the same image, yet you are going to give a discount for more custom photography? And with the Raplph's card I sometimes ger 2 boxes of Rice Krispies for the price of one.
These are not stock? If they know what images they want, why are you going on a day rate instead of a per-shot rate?
If they are like a lot of clients, they say 40-50 images now and then when it comes down to it the actual number is a lot less. So then like Todd said, they may expect the discount price when they only use 12 pictures not 50.
If they don't have the budget for 50 shots, why should that be your obligation to cover it for them and make up the lack of budget by loweirng your fees? If they can only afford 30 shots, give 'em 30 shots.
What is the point of the discount? Are they asking for a discount or is it your idea? Are you doing it for goodwill, to be a nice guy? Chances are if you discount this job, that becomes your 'price point' to them, so the next time when the job is of more limited scope you could be locked into the discount price.
I'm not a fan of discounts...this ain't Wal Mart.

M

[Erik Anderson]

First, know how many images... and which images... before going into a negotiation if possible. Also, make sure you cover yourself if they want fewer images (or get the numbers they want in writing). Basically, don't drop the per-image cost because of the volume (as they will expect to get that price if they decide they only want a few images rather than all 50). Charge your rate for the images, then back-off a volume discount (if applicable) in a second line-item.

This is an assignment, not stock images. They estimate 40-50 images, and I clarified that they will have the space. Personally, 40-50 sounds pretty high for a brochure which is why I asked, and they said 'We'll use 90%+ of the images so I'm planning for 35+. Images will be of their product and people interacting with their product.

I completely agree about the stepped discount idea. The same discount (if I decide one is necessary) will not apply to less images.


The only time that I offer volume discounts is when it promotes them to buy more images at that time (or to put it in a written contract). Most of the time is has to do with their budgets being lower than required for the per image costs. So if someone could afford 5 images at $50 each with their budget of $250, but if they wanted 10 images (worth $500) I'd do a 'volume discount' of $100-off if they bought all 10... basically, they get the images they want... and I get more money than I would have if they just went with their original budget. The key is to never drop below your bottom-line.

Personally, if they want 50 images, and have the budget for all 50 images, then no discounts... but if they don't have the budget (they never seem to) work it so that you get something out of it. In the end, the per-image numbers need to meet your approval... if not, then they are taking advantage of you (and using the volume as an excuse to do it).
-Todd...

Attempts to get any sort of budget number out of them have failed. I tried it from a number of angles, but the end results was, we have $A to spend on the production and printing of these brochures total, we haven't broken it down. I'm now thinking about quoting based on 5-10 image blocks (with respect to licensing). I'm approacing this as a day rate to create the images $X and a licensing to use the images for a year ($Y). This way, if after the shoot they decide to scrap the project, I'm still paid for my time, and in the future, they can buy the images for licensing.


These are not stock? If they know what images they want, why are you going on a day rate instead of a per-shot rate?


No, it's an assignment. I'm going day rate plus licensing per shot with a 1/2 day minimum. Expenses, post, etc will be extra.


If they are like a lot of clients, they say 40-50 images now and then when it comes down to it the actual number is a lot less. So then like Todd said, they may expect the discount price when they only use 12 pictures not 50.


Agreed, I've experienced it. That why pricing 'blocks' of photos is looking more attractive to me. It allows the client to select a number of images that is within their budget.


If they don't have the budget for 50 shots, why should that be your obligation to cover it for them and make up the lack of budget by loweirng your fees? If they can only afford 30 shots, give 'em 30 shots.
What is the point of the discount? Are they asking for a discount or is it your idea? Are you doing it for goodwill, to be a nice guy? Chances are if you discount this job, that becomes your 'price point' to them, so the next time when the job is of more limited scope you could be locked into the discount price.


I don't feel obligated to cover their bugest inadequacies by any means. I don't know how many they can afford, but as mentioned, I think they are thinking 'I pay a date rate and therefore I get 50 images or 30, or whatever I choose'. In my previous life, we dealt with vendors that gave us discounts on large purchases, and thoughtit may be appropriate to do so here. Perhaps I'm just way off base, but I'd intending on going for the goodwill.

The more I think about it, the more I like the small quantity pricing. That way if they get sticker shock, they can select a smaller number of images and not feel obligated to toss the whole quote because they find that they can't afford it.

I don't want to give the farm away by any means, but I also don't want to lose out on the chance to work with what could be a lucritive client. Their products change with the seasons and holidays and it could be a substantial source of income. With that said, I'm not so short sighted that I'm willing to hamstring myself by getting into that 'well you gave us X discount last time' situation.

[Erik Anderson]

Quick Update:

I priced the job with my day rate and the licensing rates per Fotoquote with a cross reference to the Stock Photography website that often used. To my surprise (shock) I was told that the other two photographers bidding for the job did not have licensing fees and that they are just charging a day rate to turn over 50 images for them to use as they see fit. (!?).

[Mark Scheuern]

Sorry to hear that, Erik. I'd say just walk away and let the other two "photographers" bid it down to nothing. They're looking to take advantage of people and have found a couple of people willing to let them do just that.

Mark

[Erik Anderson]

Sorry to hear that, Erik. I'd say just walk away and let the other two "photographers" bid it down to nothing. They're looking to take advantage of people and have found a couple of people willing to let them do just that.

Mark

I don't have much choice other than to walk away and hope that he was just trying to pull my chain. It's a bit depressing since on the corporate side, there seems to be a rash of people doing shoots for little to no money and less than what my date rate is.

In John Thawley terms, I guess I'm still looking for 'my' market.

[Jacob Leveton]

It's frustrating turning down work. But when you get work, and that pay check comes in, it's much more satisfying. stick with it