Slightly annoyed

[Henry Swasey]

Well I see this one banner that has 3 of my pictures in it. My signature is still on it, which Im actually ok with it for the most part, but just annoyed that the people didn't contact me first about it, they just used my pics like they belonged to them. Im not going to do anything but I at least like to keep tabs on where/who my pictures go to. You guys have any suggestions? There are about I dont know a good number of sites that are currently using my pictures, but at least they contacted me first about it.

http://justdrift.com/images/jdjan20%20copy%20small.jpg

Its the three in the middle

[Jacob Leveton]

email charlie @ just drift and ask him about it. Most people are just uneducated.

I've had my photo projected on the jumbotron in front of 15k people in a company's advertisement at an event. When I called the company the next week to ask them about it, they said that their 'buddy' runs that website and gave them the photos. I didn't realize I was already their buddy ;)

[Dennis Murray]

Im not going to do anything

Why not? Why even bother contacting them then? Isn't that just wasting your time?

Ask that the banner be taken down or you be compensated in some manner. Ask for exclusive rights to photo sales at their events, or something that benefits you. They are using your image to promote an event that presumably they profit from in some way.

[Todd Corzett]

just annoyed that the people didn't contact me first about it, they just used my pics like they belonged to them. Im not going to do anything but I at least like to keep tabs on where/who my pictures go to.
You don't like what they did. They didn't ask more than likely because they didn't know they couldn't do what they did. You need to educate them! If you don't, and they continue to use your photos in the future, it is only your fault. Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me! Even if you don't want to push your legal rights... you should at the minimum educate them on what they can and can't do.

-Todd...

[John Thawley]

You're making no sense either way.

It's OK if I steal your work as long as I tell you first?

Stand up, get a back bone and stop being happy about seeing your name on a web site.


LOOK at the entry fee on the banner for God's sake!!!! WAKE UP!!!!!

You people have to stop giving away your work or allowing your work to be used without compensation.

[Chris Clark]

LOOK at the entry fee on the banner for God's sake!!!! WAKE UP!!!!!



Exactly what I was going to say.

Take a minute and look at the banner: They have sponsors, and they are charging $125 per driver to participate! It's obvious these guys aren't some rinky-dink operation who are holding an event for "the love of the sport". They are going to profit from it. Why shouldn't you!?

My advice would be to send them a bill. A large one. You might not get paid this time around, but at least they will know that they can't use your stuff for free in the future. And like Dennis said: maybe they will give you exclusive rights to shoot at this event and sell to the competitiors. Ask for something, anything.....

If you do nothing: you will be the guy that gives photos away for free and you will never get paid for any work you do for them in the future. "You let us use them for free last time, why do we have to pay you this time?"

And buy a copy of FotoQuote (http://www.fotobiz.net/). Once you see what you should be getting paid for your images, you will certainly feel different about letting people use them for free. I recently purchased it and can't believe how naive I was about pricing.:o



-chris

[Jeff Wilson]

It's situations like this that make it harder for working pros to get paid. This is very frustrating. It's NOT okay that they steal your photos (or anyone else's) to promote an obviously for-profit event. Allowing them to do so doesn't just damage your reputation, it damages the entire industry.

Too many promoters and companies think it's okay to use images without permission, you need to call them and tell them why it's not okay.

[Jacob Leveton]

I will say this - you won't get much money if any from them. That fee doesn't cover much more than the cost of renting the track and insurance (people who say otherwise haven't seen track rental prices in Southern California or the insurance prices for drifting). But you do need to make them aware that they are not allowed to use your images on their flier without proper compensation.

[Mike Ditz]

I am sure they know , why do we (as photographers) always assume that they need "educating"? They know exactly what they are doing and figure they won't get caught and if they do they can ignore the whiny little photographer and the say "We are sorry, but the event is over and you are SOL" they may play dumb but this isn't a new concept of paying the photographer to use their images to promote ypour product/event. It is just much easier to steal images now because of the internet and the quality of digital copies. Before digital they had to get ahold of a neg or trans or a good print. But with the internet and the 'everything on the net is free' mentality it be a whole new ballgame.

Because they choose to have such a poor business model that they hardly cover the expense of putting on the event it iin no way justifies the unauthorized use of the OPs images. The fact that he doesn't really care shows what value he puts on the images. The race to the bottom continues.....

[John Thawley]

I will say this - you won't get much money if any from them. That fee doesn't cover much more than the cost of renting the track and insurance (people who say otherwise haven't seen track rental prices in Southern California or the insurance prices for drifting).

WHAT? Who gives a RAT'S ASS about the track rental fees in Southern California? Maybe you haven't seen the prices for my four year-old's private school in Michigan?

Who cares what they have to pay for or how much. It has NO BEARING on this discussion. There is no excuse for stealing. That's what they did. People need to stop sugar coating this nonsense and clamp down.... HARD.

And if you're going to be complacent and allow this sort of thing to go on, DO NOT call your self a photographer... certainly not a pro.

I am so tired of this.

[Dennis Murray]

If they want to promote the event in some manner other than word of mouth and non-graphical means...they need to put that in their budget. No excuse there.

Not to pile on...but I need to borrow a car. Where is yours parked? I'll make sure I bring it back with the tank empty.

[Jacob Leveton]

I definately thing he needs to make a phone call / email and demand that his pictures be removed. I just think that demanding a large sum of money isn't going to get you anywhere, particularly with this group.

[Mike Ditz]

"...they just used my pics like they belonged to them. Im not going to do anything..."

This discussion is poiintless anyway (maybe someone will see it and handle a similar situation differently in the future) the OP doesn't care and isnt' going to do anything about it, so us in the peanut gallery can chatter all we want for the joy of hearing ourselves type.

"...demanding a large sum of money isn't going to get you anywhere..."

Pleading poverty often works when dealing with photographers, but doesn't over so well when you have a judgement from a court (even small claims) and a deputy sherriff doing a till-tap at the gate. An it would have to be at the gate because the sleez-o promoters will some how have no money at the end.

[Jim Sykes]

I think that this has to be the saddest thread on the site to this point.

" I'm pissed...but not going to do anything about it."

And so called pros saying...

"You're not going to get money out of them, they have too many expenses."

WTF

No wonder this industry is in such bad shape.

If it pisses you off...then do something about it. Dont just sit back and let it happen.

And Jacob...c'mon. You call yourself a pro, you should know better. Its BS to sit back and assume they dont have money. Maybe that line has worked on you in the past, but that is all it is...A DAMN LINE!!

And guys fall for it all the time. These guys KNOW what they are doing and they KNOW that lines like that work on the inexperienced or guys that simply want to "see their name in lights." Dont fall for it. Make sure you get what is coming to you and make sure you teach them that they cannot do this.

How many times are you new pros going to ignore the advice of the real pros? How many things are you going to argue over with guys that have been doing this for years and are making their sole livings off of being a professional photographer? Maybe there is a reason that they are making real money at this and others arent. Did you ever think that taking their advice might be a good thing, by the responses it seems not. LISTEN and LEARN.

C'mon you guys, you are pros...ACT LIKE ONE.

[Jacob Leveton]

Jim - i've worked with this group in particular. they're the most broke drifting group in southern california. I know many-a-secrets about their innerworking and even private lives... and I promise you they're broke :)

but think what you will.

[John Thawley]

I know many-a-secrets about their innerworking and even private lives..


Of course you do.

BUT AGAIN, WHY is that a problem the photographic community must solve for them? And why do you continue to promote that or even percieve it as a defense?

Maybe they're broke because they have a lousy busy model, they're undercaapitlized, it's a lousy market and, oh.... yeah... because they're crooks? They steal. They should go away... sooner than later.

They deserve to be broke.

[Jim Sykes]

I know many-a-secrets about their innerworking and even private lives... and I promise you they're broke :)


Of course, I forgot, you know the inner secrets and workings of about everything and everyone, from the sales of myspace advertising, to the engineering of Kumho tires, to the inner workings and bank accounts of a drifting promoter.

How wrong of me to question your professionalism. :rolleyes:

And as John said, who cares? Why is that the photographers problem that they dont have money.

Ask yourself this.

If you didnt have enough money to enter one of their events...but really wanted to, do you think they would lower the entry fee for you.

And beyond that. You are trying to work for some other company, whoever, and they want you to lower your price, or better yet, give your stuff to them for free because they "dont have the budget." Do you really think they would turn around and give you free product because you cant afford to buy it (probably because you are giving away your photos for free)?

Of course not. These guys want you to be sad THEY dont have a budget and dont give a damn that YOU dont have one because they arent paying you.

Photographers are about the ONLY profession I know that people expect us to lower prices, give away stuff, sit back while they steal it and just plain allow people to walk all over us.

It has to stop.

[Mike Ditz]

Maybe they're broke because they have a lousy busy model, they're undercaapitlized, it's a lousy market and, oh.... yeah... because they're crooks?


Or maybe because they are promoting driftng...:p :rolleyes: :D we need more smilies, like that laughing one that rolls around)

[John Thawley]

Or maybe because they are promoting driftng...

That would fall under lousy business model. :)

... we need more smilies, like that laughing one that rolls around)

I hate smiley faces. :cool:

[Todd Corzett]

we need more smilies, like that laughing one that rolls around
You can always just link to an image:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/071.gif

-Todd...

[Mike Ditz]

You can always just link to an image:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/071.gif

-Todd...

Oooh this couldbe fun... http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/282.gif
Thanks Todd, you made my day! (which shows how my day has been.

[Henry Swasey]

Thanks for you alls input. I havent been in the game for as long as some of you guys have so if you could excuse my naivete (I believe thats the word I'm looking for) on the subject.

I just sent the email to Charlie and we'll see what happens.

[Thomas Maranda]

If they're not making enough money to cover expenses, they need to increase their entry fees or advertising fees. Henry, don't back down on this. Make sure you get your just compensation.