To be a fly on the wall....

[Dennis Murray]

Or in this case, the electronic wall...

My site has software to track hits by source. I came across one yesterday that was a thread on a message board frequented by people who attended a Road Atlanta event I shot over the weekend. A member posted a link to my site, and the discussion went the typical direction....

Nice pics

Wow that Porsche in B Production was crazy

Aren't those prices a little steep?

Typical prices for a trackside photographer

As for my prices, they are pretty typical to what I've seen other photographers nationwide doing track events charge and to the market of spec sports photographers as a larger group. (I've still shunned giving away digital files.)

I guess overall I'm feeling some lack of confidence in my business model for this arena as more and more people give away more and more free photos on the web and in these same forums.

[Todd Corzett]

If your business model is working for you... stick with it. There will ALWAYS be someone who wants more for less. If you dropped your prices by 20% I'm sure people would still complain... by 50% and you'd still see people wanting discounts. I've found that you shouldn't concentrate too much on the people who don't want to pay for something (they will never really want to for anything, regardless)... rather concentrate on those who value your work and are willing to pay for it. What so many people don't realize is that this is a business... they see that they can get their photos printed at CostCo for $0.20 and therefore think it's outrageous to pay several dollars for a print.

-Todd...

PS - I was thinking the other day about what some people want to pay for photos/work and about how I could make more money renting out my equipment per-day than what they want to pay me to work. Some people are just not worth the trouble, so don't let it bother you too much.

[Chris Clark]

Dennis,

Todd is right, there will always be someone who wants stuff on the cheap.

I am kind of in the same boat as you, only difference is I have a competitor who gives his Hi-Res images away for free! He figures he can make up the money by selling advertising space on his site. Not sure how thats working out for him.

My reaction is simple: take better photos.

Like you, I researched what other trackside club shooters were charging and my prices are competitive, and in some cases slightly higher. Sure I could lower my prices, and I may sell a few more images, but I feel like my work is deserving of it's price. The free pictures guy, doesn't post process... at all, Not even a little bit. I do. The free pictures guy may sell a print here and there, made on his PC printer at home. Nothing wrong with that, but my prints are done at WHCC and mounted on matboard or styrene. I think it's worth the extra price. I don't mind losing a few sales if it means I can provide a better product.

I had a racer after Nationals last year contact me about some images. He LOVED the photo's but laughed at my pricing, I mean c'mon, all I did was "point the camera and push a button"..... I said "I'm sorry you feel that way" and even went so far as to suggest some other photog's who were there. Two months later, guess who contacted me about buying a 20x30 to hang in his office at work?

After reading what I just typed, I can see how it may come across as conceited, but it's not meant that way. I'm never happy with what I shoot, I always want to be better, never satisfied. I don't think I'm better than the other guy, heck I may not even be as good as the other guy. I just might value my work more than he does, thats all.

There is also the issue of "brand". Your name is your "brand". Personally I would rather not sell any images than be the guy who is the Wal-Mart of racing photography. If I sell too cheap I not only hurt myself, I hurt the industry. Then the guys who post here, and have been so helpful won't like me very much! :(

Stick to your plan, the people who appreciate quality work will pay for it. Those who don't: probably weren't going to buy anything anyway.

-chris

[E. John Thawley III]

There is also the issue of "brand". Your name is your "brand". Personally I would rather not sell any images than be the guy who is the Wal-Mart of racing photography. If I sell too cheap I not only hurt myself, I hurt the industry.
Indeed.

A while back I did a feature story for one of my regular magazines. The car was a buzz-worthy item at SEMA that year. By the time I shot it a competitor of mine had already shot it for his magazine. We have VERY different styles and the owner of the car liked my stuff better and asked what it would take to get a disc of my images. Upon hearing my fee, the owner replied that the other guy had simply given them for free. "I guess you get what you pay for" I replied. "Boy that's for sure" said the owner.

Another time two friends in the industry were chatting about their respective six figure marketing and advertising campaigns. One said he could never seem to get any good photography for his ads. "Why don't you hire Thawley", asked the second. "Oh I'd like to" he replied, "but he's EXPENSIVE." This from a man who spends almost as much for ads in ONE magazine as my annual salary.

I love those stories. Because they place my "brand" above the other guys'. And when people pick up the phone to hire me, they're calling me because they're serious about having it done right and not wasting time. Sure, they can get someone cheaper. And if they keep at it long enough, they might find someone good and cheap. On the rare occasions that does happen, I'll sometimes get a call about doing a job for the same price as the cheap/good guy. "Why don't you just have him do it?" I'll ask. "Oh, he took a full time job somewhere and got out of the business." Hmmmm... Wonder why?

It's hard to spot these economic cycles when you're new to the business. But good photographers are here for the long run. Fortunately, the good clients are too.

[Dennis Murray]

This is the third year I've sold photos for Road Atlanta amateur events. Year 1 was about the basics of figuring out how to sell prints from events (and getting faster at getting stuff up); year 2 was about getting better at shooting and focusing on a couple of events where the fields are larger.

Year 3 is going to be about trying to maximize my print sales (since what I'm shooting got a lot better late last year) and then trying to take it in a new direction and try to find some business from some of the major car builders (or resellers) in the region who may want to do marketing materials. That, ultimately, is what would keep me in regularly at the track for club events.

I will never be the price competitor or the guy giving away free pictures. I've committed myself to doing this the right way and not bowing to what's not right from my business' point of view. While racing may be a hobby for my customer, I'm attempting to be as much a business as the tire vendor or the fuel station at the track (both of which charge a lot of money).

If my business model isn't valid, I'm out of the club racing business.

I also find it funny that people drop a couple hundred bucks for track time totalling less than 1 hour and then complain about a $10 5x7 or a $25 8x10....kind of like buying a performance car and crying because of the extra 20 cents per gallon for premium gas.

There's a few bright spots over the past couple of seasons - repeat customers from one event I shoot. That makes me feel like something is going right and there is a possibility of this being a decent line of work.

Thanks for the words of wisdom and experience...

[Mike Ditz]

Dennis,
I had a racer after Nationals last year contact me about some images. He LOVED the photo's but laughed at my pricing, I mean c'mon, all I did was "point the camera and push a button".....
-chris

All he did was hit the gas and turn left., what a dope.