Mac vs. PC....yet again!

[Kenneth May]

Forum:
Since the dawn of time, well...at least 1983 with an Atari 400, I have always used a PC. I know several of my motorsport friends (??) have given me their opinion, but am curious, who here uses a MAC vs a PC. I have said for the last several months I was switching over to a Mac (even ordered a Mac book off of ebay then returned as it was not what I ordered) as I hear great things about iLife, Aperture, etc. Yet, here I am still sitting on the fence (ouch!) and wondering if I should purchase Lightroom for my PCs or finally switch over....

Who has switched from a PC to a Mac and has there been an issues?

Thanks!
KM

P.S. Hope this is in the correct forum JT, as you know me, I have a habit of posting in incorrect forums on other boards! ;)

[Dennis Murray]

I've been a Mac user since 1991 (previously an Apple II user before that!). I've loved the stability that OS X offers, as well as what feels like long life-spans of a machine (I'm using a G4 chip in my primary computer...a bit slow with big raw files but it's acceptable).

You might think about timing your switch to coincide with a major release on Photoshop...I'm not sure how the upgrade path works switching platforms but I wouldn't want to buy another copy of CS2 because of a platform change.

[John Waugh]

Ken,
I've been with Mac for ever since 1978 (less a short stint with a PC in 1988).
Now running a MacBookPro 17" on the road and and a G5 2.7Gh dual in the studio w 2- 23" monitors
Best monitors IMO.
Aperture user with PS CS3 beta.
Runs for weeks at a time without shuting down.
Last virus and spybot check turned up 2 spy cookies after 6 months.
Syncing is a breeze. Great wireless security.
All the software that you would want.
You'll not regret the move.
John Waugh

[Justin Haugen]

I work with mac's and pc's everyday and spend an equal amount of time on both platforms. they both have their advantages. I don't buy all the marketing m.o. behind macs, I've crumbled plenty of macs and have applications go on the fritz and crash on me.

From a performance standpoint and simply aiming for higher benchmarks, you have to consider how much money you are willing to invest. I feel the highest performance benchmarks for the lowest dollar amount are going to come from the PC platform. $2500 spent on a PC is not getting you the same benchmarks on a Mac.

In PC form, you should be able to piece together the latest intel core 2 duo processor, 2 to 4gb of ram, SLI graphics card, 300 to 500gb worth of hard drive space or find a prefabbed setup nearing these specs that you could upgrade easily. I'm a nut for performance, I'd want a computer that experiences zero latency in my batch post processing work and working in photoshop with image sizes that far exceed my current setup.

Conversely, I love working on dual g5 macs, haven't had the chance to work on any of the new intel processor macs but I'm sure they're impressive. Paying for that kind of performance would put a hurting on my wallet. Now if money was no object, I wouldn't mind having the finest Mac offering in performance.

And if stability is such an issue with PC's, if you're a power user, there shouldn't be any problem getting your platform to operate without melting down on you. While I've outgrown my current setup, it's run to it's highest capibilities with no catastrophies for three years now. I've had to force quit as many mac apps as I've had to end process on pc's.

If one of the two platforms ceased to exist, my life would not be any different, but I must say how much I loathe the new windows vista OS..... >_< I think as a professional anyone should be able to work between the two platofrms seamlessly and not experience any drop off in their work flow efficiency because they're dedicated to one OS. It's just stubborn to fall into one camp over the other.

if you really want to confuse yourself, there's bootcamp which allows you to partition windows and dual boot into whichever OS on your mac :D

[Daniel Buck]

For photography, I'd say it doesn't really matter. Photoshop and other photo programs run great on either platform.

Personally, I am a PC guy, and our studio doesn't have any Mac computers, for what we do (3d visual effects) windows and linux machines gets the job done.

I have found that those who are strongly for (or against) one or the other, generally don't really know much about the other side, unless they are talking about a very specific task that they need to perform.

[Mike Ditz]

What sort of issues are you wondering about?

Just like there are really no differences between Nikon and Canon, or Coke and Pepsi there are really no problems with either one. It's a personal choice (or the choice of the purchasing department) It's the rare user who runs into the limits of either setup and has to buy the other to get the job done.

But if you are the type to build your own stuff, you can go to Frys and buy all the parts you need to build a PC just the way you want it, the Macs are already built and you cannot do it yourself.

[Todd Corzett]

If buying a Mac I'd wait until 10.5 ships with them, as well as the release of CS3 (you should be able to switch platforms with an upgrade... if not via the website, call and it can be done). It really is a Canon vs. Nikon sort of thing... they both get the job done.

Personally, I'd never buy a PC now that the Macs are able to boot Windows. Heck, if I had the budget at work I'd trade-out my Dual Xeon PC for a Mac Pro (btw: upgraded to 8-cores now!) and the applications I run are Windows only.

-Todd...

[Justin Haugen]

It's amazing where computers are at now.

[E. John Thawley III]

I am a Mac guy because I LOVE the stability and customer service (with the Apple Care extended service plan). I tried the PC thing for a while in the mid-90s, but it was a painful experience since I'm not much of a computer do-it-yourselfer. My current set up is similar to John Waugh's, but with a 15" lap that opens up wider when flying coach.

The only downside to Mac is the limited amount of business and technical software compared to PC. I've been skunked on some of the e-commerce software I'd like to be using (for a non-photo related business) and NONE of the racing and data acquisition software runs on Mac. Turns out that race engineers are all PC guys. Bummer.

The new Intel processor Macs eliminate that shortcoming by allowing you to run Windows on the Mac and thus, all the Windows software. Not a problem if you're buying new. Just a drag for me since I have yet to got with the latest hardware.

[John Thawley]

Well... I've been hesitant about chiming in on this one.

I'm a Mac guy. And while every reason has already been posted... for or against, no one has hit on the most important difference to me.

I like well designed things. I like well designed furniture, shoes, audio equipment, pens, architecture, watches and on and on.

The industrial design and overall asthetics of Mac (Apple) products just does it for me. There are some things in life that are don't have to have a "reason." They're just things you enjoy. Selecting, cutting and lighting a nice cigar is as much a part of the enjoyment as is the relaxation of smoking it.. so is using the right cutter and the right lighter. The right wine in the RIGHT Riedel glass... the right espresso in the right espresso cup... and so on. Some things you just experience.

I find when I sit down at a Mac, there is a certain amount of value add (for me) in the asthetics and the design. They just feel good. Seriously, I love opening up my PowerBook Pro and going to work on it.

There is no substitute for good design. Good design should think and work like you do. Macs do that. At least for me.

JT

[Todd Corzett]

The right wine in the RIGHT Riedel glass...
So I'm not suposto drink my champagne out of a red plastic 'party' cup? :p

-Todd...

[Justin Haugen]

Well... I've been hesitant about chiming in on this one.

I'm a Mac guy. And while every reason has already been posted... for or against, no one has hit on the most important difference to me.

I like well designed things. I like well designed furniture, shoes, audio equipment, pens, architecture, watches and on and on.

The industrial design and overall asthetics of Mac (Apple) products just does it for me. There are some things in life that are don't have to have a "reason." They're just things you enjoy. Selecting, cutting and lighting a nice cigar is as much a part of the enjoyment as is the relaxation of smoking it.. so is using the right cutter and the right lighter. The right wine in the RIGHT Riedel glass... the right espresso in the right espresso cup... and so on. Some things you just experience.

I find when I sit down at a Mac, there is a certain amount of value add (for me) in the asthetics and the design. They just feel good. Seriously, I love opening up my PowerBook Pro and going to work on it.

There is no substitute for good design. Good design should think and work like you do. Macs do that. At least for me.

JT

I was going to counterpoint by saying you're taking a very personal experience and trying to turn it into an objective arguement, but that's exactly what any one of us is doing.

The performance benchmarks of computers these days are lightyears ahead of where we came from. No matter what you get, you're in for an upgrade to your work flow that anyone would welcome.

So perhaps it does really come down to which one feels best for you. When I think of Mac's, I think of them as autopilot. I use a mac to get down to business and I'm oblivious to everything else going on in the computer. My pc is the part of my life that reflects me most. It needs to be micromanaged and every facet of the computing experience is under your control whether you like it or not (I like that).

I would whole-heartedly agree that the mac and its OS are very intuitive and very well designed, BUT, I don't like to feel as if the computing experience is being taken away from me so I love my PCs too.

It's all about what kind of user you are.

John, I wish I was afforded the fine things you get to enjoy, I live in my Grandmother's garage :D

[Kenneth May]

WOW! Thanks for all of the responses, truly appreciate it. As all of my business software (PeachTree Acct, Quicken, etc) is on my PC, I guess I really have no excuse not to switch now that Windows runs on a MAC.

The Nikon vs. Canon topic is an interesting one...let me become long winded if I may...

Up until 2003 I was a film shooter....a Pentax K1000 shooter to boot! I spent months debating getting into the digital world and was not sure of Canon or Nikon, and was also not sure I wanted to scrap all of my lenses and purchase digital scanners, new computer, etc etc. Against advice from fellow motorsport photographers, I stepped into the digital world with my pinky toe (ahem..Seinfield reference) and purchased the slick Nikon Coolpix5700! Within minutes of my first race shooting with "the toy" I realized I goofed and wanted to go full bore into Digital...so the question was Canon or Nikon....I liked the "look" of the Canon L lenses and liked the "Canon ads"....so now I have 1-MKII, 2-20Ds, and 2-10Ds.....My point to this rambling? When I look at those in the photo business (ie media centers and event photography) I see all these new Mac Pros and I hear how Aperture is EXACTLY what I need ( I shoot youth sports-Leagues) so hence...the issue.

Since I air travel a lot, 2-3 times a month, I am figuring the MacPro 15"..with 2Gig RAM and at least 100GB HD....

I know JT hooks up his MacPro to an Apple monitor, so that would be the next purchase....damn, does it ever stop? LOL

Seriously, thanks for the posts....good info to chew on.

KM

[Justin Haugen]

Sounds like you are well on your way to making a fine purchase. It's not like you won't be keeping your current pc anyway, right?

Btw, if you can get more ram I'd go for it. 2gb is substantial but that'd be a helluva a laptop with 4

I'm posting from a dual G5 with 4gb right now :D

[Kenneth May]

Can you get 4gb of ram?

Regarding the HD, I am now using USB HD's...will they convert over to a MAC? Firewire corerct? My desk top external HDs (250GBs) are all three USB....will they work in a MAC?

KM

[Justin Haugen]

hmm...now that you mention it I'm not sure if they have 2gb laptop memory dimms so you could pair them for 4gb.
Your externals will work via USB. Mac's have both firewire and usb ports.

Check out this link, wouldn't mind one of these monsters (http://www.apple.com/macpro/).


If anyone here personally owns an 8 core with 3tb of storage and 16gb of ram, I would take vacation to come try out photoshop on your setup. I setup an order on apple's website, should only cost you a whopping $12,000!!! :D I imagine in 5 years when I'm ready to make a huge investment into a computer, the specs are going to sky rocket. Think of where computing will be in that time. Crazy.


Todd, is this what you're using at work?

[Kenneth May]

Funny...at $2500 that is about what I paid for my desktop PC two years ago! The thing is, when I switch to a MAC, it will be easy to convince my lovely bride the purchase is necessary for our three kids (5,8,and 11) to keep all the nasty virus and spam off...LOL....but to convince said lovely bride of purchasing a laptop and a desktop during the same week...well....that would be a lot of shoes for her to agree!....Mmmmm, will have to work on that one.

Seriously, I know I need to switch over, but was curous to see the ratio of MAC vs PC users here on JT's forum....

KM

[Justin Haugen]

Even if I get a mac someday, I'm sure I'll be keeping my pc and laptop around as well. I love having a wireless workflow at home. Photos get transferred to the laptop when I'm on location, come home and transfer all the photos to my desktop via wireless. Wireless print and file sharing kicks butt. Someday I'll have a room full of computers!

Do you think that'll be healthy? lol

[Todd Corzett]

Todd, is this what you're using at work?
Nah... this is what I use at work:


BlueGene/L: The World's Fastest Supercomputer (280.6 teraFLOPS) (http://www.llnl.gov/asc/computing_resources/bluegenel/)
http://www.llnl.gov/PAO/news/news_releases/2006/images/BlueGene_big.jpg


One of the perks of working where I do... unfortunately, they don't let me use it for Photoshop... although this monitor is bitchn' for graphics work:


Powerwall (~60MP display) (http://www.llnl.gov/str/October04/Ahern.html)
http://www.llnl.gov/str/October04/gifs/Ahern1.jpg


-Todd...

[John Thawley]

Can you get 4gb of ram?

Regarding the HD, I am now using USB HD's...will they convert over to a MAC? Firewire corerct? My desk top external HDs (250GBs) are all three USB....will they work in a MAC?

KM

You can put 3gb in the new Core Duo2 MacBook Pro.

All your harddrives will work... Macs come with both USB2 and Firewire. You may have to do some juggling of data while you reformat the drives though. As I recall, your drives are probably formatted for Windoze...

JT

[Kenneth May]

JT:
I think I told you what Renee said the other night...saw the USB HD (ahem, hard drive...get your mind out of the gutter!) I bought from you and just said, "Hmmm new toy?" and walked away....Of course, I blamed you for it....:cool:

Now as I carry my laptop all around the house or deck, the HD (ahem...hard drive!) is always with me! :D :o

Back on subject:
OK, so a Mac Pro....15" monitor, 2GB RAM, 100GB HD....what speed should I get? Mostly for video and photo processing?

KM

[Justin Haugen]

OSx's filesystem is HFS+. It will read the files on your external hard drive but won't write to your hard drive because it is in NTFS file structure.

[Kenneth May]

Justin:
As a few who know me will state, I am an idiot when it comes to computers....so with that said,,,,I have no idea what NFTS vs. HFS+ means....I cant write to my USB HD on a MAC?

[Daniel Buck]

There is no substitute for good design. unless your software doesn't run on a mac :D

It's alot better now than it was a while ago though. All of our compositing software, and quite a bit of our 3d software can run on a mac now (with mac OS, no modifications). But there is still some software that can't run on a mac. For users who only need to edit photos, get which ever one you like best! They'll both get it done! But in some professions, mac just isn't an option. Well, I guess it kind of is now that you can put windows on a mac machine, and the fact that a mac machine physically (hardware anyway) is pretty much a PC now , with a different shell and OS. For situations where you need 100s of machines to do nothing but sit in a room and render all day long, mac doesn't make sense.

The majority of differences between mac and PC (features, software, and hardware) have been disolved, so it's up to what you like best about the looks and OS, rather than what you *need*, because they both do just about everything now, including running alot of the same software, or equivalent anyway.

The last MAC I used was OS2, so it took me a while to realize that MAC is actually a good machine, if I didn't already have PC software, It would be a big decision for me on my next computer. But since it's not, I'll stick with PC :)

[Justin Haugen]

Justin:
As a few who know me will state, I am an idiot when it comes to computers....so with that said,,,,I have no idea what NFTS vs. HFS+ means....I cant write to my USB HD on a MAC?


To put it simply, you can take the contents of your external hard drive and put it onto your Mac, but you won't be able to write back to that hard drive. You can format it from you mac and then be able to write back to the drive. Basically your external will be like a cd, you'll be able to pull files off it, but not write to the disc until it has been formatted by your mac os.

[Jim Sykes]

Seriously, I know I need to switch over,
KM

Why do you think that? You certainly dont NEED to switch.

As I've told you and currently using both, its just a matter of which you want. You dont need to have one or the other and having worked with both, its sixes at best. Both have plusses and minuses and having used a Mac for almost six months now, seriously dont see how so many people say things like "I'm so glad I made the switch" or "I cant believe I waited so long."

Its a good machine, but its just another machine. I like it for its lack of issues with spyware and viruses, so I can be more lazy in that respect. However, beyond that its nothing special. As a matter of fact I have had my Mac Pro crash requiring re-boot more in the last six months of owning it than I had my PC crash in the previous three years. So not sure where the stability thing comes from. Maybe its the Intel thing, I dont know. But I have to restart it for silly things, such as the cut and paste not working, drag and drop not functioning (which you need to use a lot on Mac) and more seriously, programs seeming to loop and nothing responding for long periods of time.

Will I buy another. Yes, I will replace my PC laptop with a Macbook Pro, but more because I have my desktop as a Mac now and just want them both to be the same platform since I go back to PC and hit wrong buttons and things because of being used to OSX shortcuts and such.

If you want a Mac at home for the virus and spyware thing, since you have kids, thats a valid reason. But beyond that, if your PC is working for you, I'd consider the reasons you want to switch, not just because other say you should.

As to your external drives. Did you format them when you got them for Windows? They come formatted FAT32 and that will work on both machines and if you never changed that, you can use them on your mac. If you formatted them for your Windows machine, you will need to dump the info off them, reformat them for Mac, then put the info back on them or you will not be able to write to them with a Mac. If you do, you can chance losing everything on the drive.

But then know that after they are Mac formatted, you will not be able to do anything with them on a PC, which is another downfall of having both platforms in use and why I will replace my laptop at some point in time with a Mac. So if you have multiple computers you need to access the photos from you will need to make sure they stay FAT32 or know you can only use them on one or the other machines.

Since making the switch, I'm not necessarily sorry I did it. But if I had to do it again, I wouldnt, I'd have just kept using PCs and not be going through the issues of switching, such as the deal with the HDDs, having two platforms, buying all new software, etc.

[Kenneth May]

Good point Jimmy...."need" is a complicated word to define....I believe I "need" to switch as I hear and have seen what a MAC can do with both digital video and photography (Aperture, iLife, iMovie, etc), as well as the unique books that only MAC offers. Right now, I own all the ADOBE video editing software (Premier) and authoring software and PSCS2 for photography. In addtion, I have create books from Blurb, Vivio, ShareInk, etc and will continue to use them, but also like the paperback "inexpensive" book,....but I continue to struggle with workflow (Aperture vs Lightroom?) and simple video editing....

In addition, I am not embarrased to say, just my choice to go with Canon because of the 'white glass', I like the look of the Apple and it appears those I speak with in the photography business (be it in the media centers, sport events I shoot, or here in the Corporate environment) the majority are using MAC. I guess the 'wanting to keep up with the Jones mentality' is creeping in...

Regarding the external hard drives, the three large (external power) were set up for Windows, and the USB one I purchased from JT and also were config to Windows,,,,not a biggy, as I plan to keep running window applications, so worse case, I config these to MAC, but for only read only...and purchase others for read and write....

GAWD, am I making this more complicated that it really is? Dont answer that....I know the answer!

[Jim Sykes]

I think you are falling into the "I want to be like Mike" syndrome though. Today, there is absolutely nothing that a Mac can do that a PC cannot and I'd say its just as easy both ways as well with the right software.

I'm not saying dont change, I'm just saying make sure you are doing it for the right reasons.

Just because all your idols are using Macs doesnt mean you have to as well, remember, Bob C is a PC user and does pretty well if you ask me. ;)

BTW, dont change just for Aperture, its an ok program, but certainly not worth the whole switch just for it. I've tried and discarded it. It has some nice things, but I think its quite bloated as well.

[John Thawley]

there is absolutely nothing that a Mac can do that a PC cannot and I'd say its just as easy both ways as well with the right software.

The same could be said about fat chicks or scooters... but who wants to be seen with either. LOL

BTW, dont change just for Aperture, its an ok program, but certainly not worth the whole switch just for it. I've tried and discarded it. It has some nice things, but I think its quite bloated as well.

That is absolutely not true. You may have "tried" it and discarded it, but I find it to be a lot less bloated than using several different programs to do the same thing.

And... my friend, you hardly qualify as someone that embraces change. :) Sorry roomie... I know you too well to let that slide.

[John Waugh]

JT's
"I like well designed things. I like well designed furniture, shoes, audio equipment, pens, architecture, watches and on and on.....
There is no substitute for good design. Good design should think and work like you do. Macs do that. At least for me".

I didn't want to go there, but thats a big part of my preference.
I especially enjoy and appreciate using a piece of fine design.
Nicely put, JT
Jimmy you drive a BMW not a Pontiac because of the feel and the design.
Plus,I think that Bill has plenty of money and he won't miss mine.
John

[Kenneth May]

Hey John Waugh!
Interesting comments here and dont want to open up the 'can of worms'....

One of the main drivers to all of this is my lovely bride who keeps asking me why I spend so much time 'post processing' (scary that she knows the lingo!) pictures as we sit on the couch watching TV..having a glass of wine...ahem...after the kids are in bed. Now I reailze my work flow process has a lot to be desired and not using a program like Photomechanic is an issue, but I have heard (and now am reading as I purchased a book the other week) so much about Aperature.....think it is time to switch. I know Lightroom is now out, so curious, have any on this forum used both? Switched from one to the other?

Comments? Thanks again for all the responses....great reading....
KM

[Jim Sykes]

That is absolutely not true. You may have "tried" it and discarded it, but I find it to be a lot less bloated than using several different programs to do the same thing.

I dont agree with that, it depends on what you want. I dont want to have, or need some huge library taking up space on my computer.

If I'm still going to have PS on my computer for heavy manipulation, why would I want another program on my machine that takes up as much space and resources as Aperture, when I can do what I need with something like Photomechanic or BreezeBrowser a lot faster and with a lot less resources and space being taken up?

If you want or need something that can store and catalog your entire collection in the library, then Aperture is fine for that. its not something I want or need.

What I do like about aperture would be the ability to browse and do the minor adjustments all in the same program, like it does. But I'd like to be able to do that without all the bloated underpinnings of Aperture and the massive library that gets created.

To me its like having PS ONLY to resize images. Its overbloated for that and way more program than is needed. That is how I see Aperture. I just havent drank the Kool Aid on that one yet.

And... my friend, you hardly qualify as someone that embraces change. :) Sorry roomie... I know you too well to let that slide.

Somewhat true, but mainly because IF I'm going to change there better be a damn good reason for me to do it and it better be a big and worthwhile reason.

I guess that is why I wouldnt do the Apple switch again. Its nice and has a few advantages, but not enough to make it worth the time, effort and cost of doing it. Its just not enough better for me to warrant a change if I were doing it over again. Not sorry I did, just hasnt been worth the effort to do it imo. Not going back at this point though cause I've already done it.

Same with the program. Aperture would need to be heads and shoulders above what I'm doing now and I just dont see it, at least for my needs at this point. If there was a way to use it without the library, I'd do it because of the convenience of having some editing tools right in a browser, but I dont need all the other stuff it does.

All I'm saying to Ken as well, I dont think that Aperture is THAT great a program that it should be the REASON to switch over. Lightroom, while maybe not as great for what it does as Aperture, will certainly do what you need on a PC and I would never consider switching an entire platform just for a program.

Aperture is not an essential piece of software. If, say, PS was only available on one or the other, that would be different as its an essential part of the job. But Aperture, naw. Not when you have a similar program on PC in Lightroom.

Again, if there are other reasons and you can justify the switch, do it. But dont do it for a program or because other people are using them.

John W. I agree, there are things that I do take design into account, but this isnt one of them. I couldnt care less what my computer looks like as long as it gets the job done. And I dont think the designs are all that anyway. They look good, the laptops are sleek (which I admit IS something I wouldnt mind), however, they have their own issues because of it. They still can damage the screen with the keyboard if you arent careful and have something to put in between every time you close the thing. They still seem to have issues with wireless signals. I see it all the time with JT having signals going in and out and walking around a hotel room looking for steady signal while my PC is pegged full strength the entire time. The only issues I have with my PC not getting onto a wireless is when its the fault of the network not letting it on (like I had at Sebring this year), never wireless signal.

So, while they look nice, they do have issues as well and arent the perfect pieces of hardware that many make them out to be.

I'm not bashing Apple, I do like some of their products and like what they have done and if I can get function AND form, great, I'll take it. But for me the function is still the most important thing and what it looks like isnt going to sway me.

I'm just trying to be realistic here. No offense to anyone here, but you have to admit that a lot of Apple people and many that think they need to switch get caught up in the hype and drink the Kool Aid without being realistic. Then after they switch they chug the Kool Aid, I guess with trying to justify the switch.

To me its more realistic and the grass is only slightly greener at very best on the other side. I just havent seen what all the hooplah is about and I'll continue to say so when people ask. As I said before, I have DEFINITELY had more issues with my Apple than I EVER had with my XP PC. You just cant argue with that and tell me how great Apples are.

[Kenneth May]

Hey Buddy:
Good comments and as I said in one of my earlier threads, I fully realize I am in getting caught up in the 'Apple Frenzy" and 'keeping up with the Jones' or is that Thawley's? LOL) but.............

Funny, I spoke with the photographer here at the Corp office today, and told him about this discussion and forum (ahem, except a new member this week JT...do I get a finders feee? :p ) and he made the switch to Apple several years ago....He is also using Aperture and is going to show me some of the stuff it has to offer...

KM

[John Waugh]

Kool aid?
Jimmy.............
Let me know how you like Vista.
John

[John Thawley]

(ahem, except a new member this week JT...do I get a finders feee? :p )

Absolutely, my friend!!!

Expect to see a credit on your next Tech Support invoice. :rolleyes: :cool:

[John Thawley]

Jimmy... design isn't just looks. That would be asthetics.

My connectivity problems aren't nearly as often as you would imply and the signal strength your meter might display is NOT reflective of your actual ability to connect.... or don't the words "I'm connected but I can't get on" ring a bell? Or wasn't that you sitting there running "defrag" the other night? :)

Furthermore, would you care to recount how many times last year I walkied into a media center full of PC users who couldn't connect to the existing network and got them all online by simply connecting a little Airport Express?

Yep.. there have been a couple of occassions where the Airport card doesn't appear to have the range... but you NEVER see me dicking around with configurations and trying to connect. That is an absolute falicey.

Regardless... I stopped comparing years ago. I know what I like and I know what works for me.

Truth is, this is business and it's competitive.... I like having an edge. It's fine with me if everyone else is slow to catch on. ;)

[Kenneth May]

John Waugh:
Quick question....Isnt your 17" laptop a bear to use when you fly? Or are you, ahem, always fying first class? LOL

Living here in Evansville, Indiana, we have a Regional Airport, so every flight is a connection flight with either Delta or Northwest in those lovely smaller jets...Hell, I cant even take the ThinkTank 'Airport Security' bag as a carry on....

Would think the 15" screen is the way to go....
Comments from those that have the larger screen laptop?

KM

[Jim Sykes]

Kool aid?
Jimmy.............
Let me know how you like Vista.
John

I dont know how else to put it. I'm not implying anyone here is that way, but you have to admit it goes on pretty bad in the real world, even with things other than Apple. How many people do you know that dont have a single bad thing to say about Apple....EVER? ;)

[Jim Sykes]

Jimmy... design isn't just looks. That would be asthetics.

My connectivity problems aren't nearly as often as you would imply and the signal strength your meter might display is NOT reflective of your actual ability to connect.... or don't the words "I'm connected but I can't get on" ring a bell? Or wasn't that you sitting there running "defrag" the other night? :)

Furthermore, would you care to recount how many times last year I walkied into a media center full of PC users who couldn't connect to the existing network and got them all online by simply connecting a little Airport Express?

Yep.. there have been a couple of occassions where the Airport card doesn't appear to have the range... but you NEVER see me dicking around with configurations and trying to connect. That is an absolute falicey.

Regardless... I stopped comparing years ago. I know what I like and I know what works for me.

Truth is, this is business and it's competitive.... I like having an edge. It's fine with me if everyone else is slow to catch on. ;)

You're mixing things up here a bit.

Yes, the Airport works great and is a way that gives many people a connection with a single line. Its also a way to get around the incompetent people setting up networks at some of these tracks. But that is a completely different issue.

"I'm connected but cant get on" has absolutely NOTHING to do with PC or Mac. That happens when the idiots dont have enough nodes set up to handle the traffic. It happened at Sebring when I would come in mid day and all the connections were taken up. I could see the network, however, it would not give me the IP that would allow an outside connection.

So that has NOTHING to do with being on a PC.

However, when I can see a network full strength and an Macbook cant...that is entirely due to the actual hardware, nothing else. All it means is that the wireless card in my PC happens to be able to pick up the signal better than the Mac when we are in similar positions.

That wasnt meant to slam Macs, its just a FACT I have seen from us constantly looking for the same networks and me, fairly often, being able to pick up signal when you cant.

I have also NEVER changed any kinds of settings on my laptop to get connected. It just does it. And actually I do remember you sitting around messing with settings last weekend at the hotel. ;)

Look, this certainly isnt personal. I'm talking about my personal experiences with the hardware. I do like the Mac, I'm going to buy a Macbook at some point so I can work on the same systems at home and at the track.

However, why cant any Mac people seem to take the criticism. It happened on Sports Shooter as well when I got on there and told people my Mac Pro has not been anywhere near as stable as my PC was. All of a sudden everyone jumped down my throat as if I were raping their little sisters.

Its my experience, dont tell me I'm wrong. My PC works. I dont have trouble connecting to networks. The only time I do is when the network isnt working right, not my PC. My Mac Pro needs to be rebooted due to not responding or some other strange deal almost once a week. I never had that issue with my PC. But I do like the Mac Pro. The hardware is put together great and it is fast. OSX is nice, I do like it. I like the security with it, which is probably its best asset. I wish it was a little more stable for me, but I still am not going to dump it. I wouldnt go through the switch again, but now that I'm here, I'm not leaving.

Those are my thoughts and experiences, nothing more, nothing less. Others can make up their own minds. I certainly didnt mean to have anyone upset with my opinions and experiences, nor did I mean to offend anyone with the Kool Aid comment. But you got to admit the drinkers are out there, with Apple, Canon and many other things as well.:D

[John Waugh]

Ken,
While those two bicker, I do use the 17" ,I like it in my teaching and when I present to clients.
As for airplanes I ride in steerage with the rest of us and the 17" is a bear to open with the front seatback reclined. Truth is I save so much time in processing with Aperture that I don't work on the planes much anymore. (just a jab, Jimmy)
I like watching a DVD on the 17" but mostly I try to catch up some sleep after a long week of making and sending images. The 15" is great but missing a few thing the 17" doesn't offer, at the time only the 17" came with a Firewire 800 port and a dual sided DVD R/W Drive. that may have changed. As a presentation tool the 17" is a big advantage with my clients.
John

[John Thawley]

That wasnt meant to slam Macs, its just a FACT I have seen from us constantly looking for the same networks and me, fairly often, being able to pick up signal when you cant.

Jimmy... that's just not true. It happened in Long Beach last year. Monterey... though I was picking up the hotel next door. And partially this past week in St. Pete... which, by the way, the network was up and down for us both.

I have also NEVER changed any kinds of settings on my laptop to get connected. It just does it. And actually I do remember you sitting around messing with settings last weekend at the hotel. ;)

Again, I attempted to change settings NOT due to signal strength... but due to the fact we (read WE) were continually not connecting to the Internet... regardless of signal strength.


Look, this certainly isnt personal. I'm talking about my personal experiences with the hardware.

Hmmm... seems to me you're talking about MY experiences. LOL

JT

[Kenneth May]

John Waugh:
OMG!!! Are you throwing into the discussion now that I need to determine if I should go with the 17" now? :confused: :confused: :eek: :)

The plan for me is to purchase a monitor and just hook up the laptop,,,to use as a desk top....so 17" wont be used at home....

KM

[John Waugh]

Ken,
I use the 17" in my client's offices where I don't always have access to a good monitor and CS2/Aperture software.
Go out look and work with all of the possibilities and make the decission. Your going to be happy either way.
The next group of platforms will be like the Mark III to the Mark II-n, a little better a little different. Ge a nice monitor as you primary screen. Whole new discussion, I'm sure.
John

[Jim Sykes]

Ken,
Truth is I save so much time in processing with Aperture that I don't work on the planes much anymore. (just a jab, Jimmy)
John

Touche. :D

And trust me, I'm not trying to bicker, I just thought I was sharing my experience.:o

[Jim Sykes]

Jimmy... that's just not true. It happened in Long Beach last year. Monterey... though I was picking up the hotel next door. And partially this past week in St. Pete... which, by the way, the network was up and down for us both.


Again, I attempted to change settings NOT due to signal strength... but due to the fact we (read WE) were continually not connecting to the Internet... regardless of signal strength.

Actually, I dont recall having any issues in the hotel at all. The entire thing went down once and I was back on when it came back up. I recall working just fine the first night we were there without any problem when we decided to go out.

Anyway, I apologize, I didnt think it would be such a problem stating that I have seen that in many cases, where my computer gets full wireless strength, yours is not. Even when we are up and running, yours doesnt seem to show as strong a signal.

And its not only you. Last year at Lime Rock for Grand Am (you werent there) I sat next to John Healey who was using a Mac and he had no signal at all, while all the PC users in the room were seeing the signal. He had to go outside the trailer to get a signal.

I dont know what else to think when things like that happen. Sorry.

To me, that is either an issue with the Mac wireless receiver, or my Dell (and other PCs in the case of LRP) is exceptionally good.



Hmmm... seems to me you're talking about MY experiences. LOL

JT

John, dont you know your experiences ARE my experiences. :p

[E. John Thawley III]

As for airplanes I ride in steerage with the rest of us and the 17" is a bear to open with the front seatback reclined...
The 15" is great but missing a few thing the 17" doesn't offer, at the time only the 17" came with a Firewire 800 port and a dual sided DVD R/W Drive. that may have changed. As a presentation tool the 17" is a big advantage with my clients.
Battery time may also be an issue. 17 uses more power for the same HD size and processor speed. Like John, I have not compared the current feature lists between the two.

I have looked at the glossy and mat screens side by side, though. The contrast and saturation of the glossy screen are far better than the matt. It does show finger prints, though...

[Kenneth May]

My PC is with the glossy screen and prefer over mat....The problem living in small town USA (Evansville) is there are no Apple stores close to go to and just talk with the tech/sales people. That is why I got the Gateway desk top as there were Gateway stores here (now they are closed!)...I dont mind spending the extra bucks for 'something' as long as I can put a face to the service dept....HATE sending things in the mail to be fixed!!!

Looks like a road trip to Indy is in order as I believe they have an Apple store there....drop kids and lovely bride off to the childrens museum...then Apple store....yeah, thats the ticket! :)

KM

[Kenneth May]

John Waugh:
Besides the two features you mentioned, anything else differ between the 15" and 17" (and dont say 2 inches! LOL :) )

Most likely more RAM?
KM

[E. John Thawley III]

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=925997E8&nclm=MacBookPro

My bad. Under "complete specs" it shows the 17" has more battery life. Bigger battery I guess.

[John Waugh]

I have mine set with 2Gb RAM
I could take it to 4 Gb but would have to ditch my 2-1Gb simms.
Take your kids to the museum and take your wife to the Mac Store. Look at the 20" iMac for her.
Just making more trouble I guess.
Happy Easter.
John

[Jim Sykes]

I just saw this today and had to post thinking of this thread. :D

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/steve_koolaid2.jpg

[Kenneth May]

KoolAid? Yuck..cant stand the stuff...I prefer Propel!

John Waugh: Well, taking a family vacation to the land of the mouse (ahem-Disney) the last week of this month for 10 days....think it might be a good time to hit an Apple store? LOL

Thanks for the insights on this thread....it is not a matter of "if" I change platforms anymore, but rather the specifics of how to build a Mac Pro...just going to go through the Mac store and be done with bidding and losing on ebay....lost a bid last night by 100!!!!!! UGH

Funny thing is I already have a book on Aperture and was starting to read, but really is difficult to learn until I set some time to work on it...Perhaps by then JT you will have your teaching certificate and can make a road trip to lovely E town? LOL

KM

[Kenneth May]

WOW!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20070409/sc_livescience/newharddrivesholdaterabyteofdata

[Kenneth May]

DONE!
I am going to be a proud papa of a new Apple MacPro, as of 4pm tomorrow! God help JT as his phone will be ringing on the hour! Although I will be at SLC for the ALMS race, still going to use my trusty (one last time?) PC......

Going to have Aperture, Final Cut (Express) and Bootcamp installed.....the Apple store closes at 9pm, wonder how long it will take for them to kick me out before closing?

[Steve Demmitt]

I like good design too
and my pc is designed perfectly for me to my specs

personally I feel macs are just overpriced status symbols
but to each their own

[Christopher Pasatieri]

I don't know if you've made a decision yet, this thread is pretty old, however I am a die hard PC user all the way. I had to use a MAC at work recently, and had nothing but problems with Flash, Photo Mechanic, and Photoshop. This was a duel core Intel based MAC, with 4 gigs of RAM and 2TB or hard drive space.

I went PC with my new laptop because of the expense. I purchased a TOSHIBA A210 (I may be wrong on the model number), and I love it. It came with a 250 gig hard drive, 2 gigs of RAM, and a 15.4" wides screen monitor. It was $1100. after rebates, the MAC version was almost $3000. from mac.com. TOSHIBA was even smart enough to build an extra hard drive bay on the under carriage.

I am running VISTA HOME PREMIUM. The key to the new PC's is to turn all the BS off that comes with VISTA. This takes a bit of advanced user knowledge, but made a huge difference. Plus most PC users create their own problems, many which you can avoid, for example I surf the web using FIREFOX, not IE. Most spyware and spam pop ups are designed to attack the scripting used in IE, so don't use it.

Anyway, that's my opinion on the debate, PC all the way.

CP

[John Thawley]

I don't know if you've made a decision yet, this thread is pretty old, however I am a die hard PC user all the way. I had to use a MAC at work recently, and had nothing but problems with Flash, Photo Mechanic, and Photoshop. This was a duel core Intel based MAC, with 4 gigs of RAM and 2TB or hard drive space.

CP

The problem you had is you're a PC user. The simplicity probably threw you.

Now the problem you have is you're still a PC user.

So tonight you're gonna party like it's 1999... LOL

JT

[Cosmin Margau]

I have a solution.... use both, macs can now run windows, and thanks to some wonderfull ingenuity form the people over at OSX86, you can now run OSX on your pc ;) at startup mine lets me choose which to boot into, might be some bugs with certain systems but mine works like a charm :D

[John Thawley]

I have a solution.... use both, macs can now run windows, and thanks to some wonderfull ingenuity form the people over at OSX86, you can now run OSX on your pc ;) at startup mine lets me choose which to boot into, might be some bugs with certain systems but mine works like a charm :D

Well, you are just NO FUN!!!! :)

JT

[Sean Mayo]

i am a pretty diehard PC user, not out of stubbornness to change, but because Windows suits my needs better. For a while i wanted a macbook pro, and then i started taking computer arts and video courses at school. Working on a a mac every day, I learned that I just don't like the operating system, and I guess I just don't see the point. At school I use the crazy $3k 8-core Mac Pros, and i dont notice it being that much faster (application launch times, general responsiveness) than my aging-but-still-quite-potent gaming rig (overclocked 2.3 GHz AMD Athlon64 single core, 2GB Corsair XMS RAM, GeForce 7600GT, 500GB Seagate Barracuda). It also is pretty crashy, with iphoto and imovie conjuring the "whirling pinwheel of death". Photoshop CS3 launches in the same amount of time, and filters work faster on my PC.

Maybe I just am just having the entirely atypical Mac experience, but it seems to me like they are overpriced and kinda mediocre. Plus, you cant play games on a Mac.